23 thoughts on “”

1. I’m curious; why the large variety of calibers? If you have the .223 semiauto rifle or the .308 semiauto rifle, why do you need the other rifle and the .308 bolt gun? It seems to me that in terms of uses, the three would be largely interchangeable. Likewise, if you have a 9mm pistol and a .45, when do you need to reach for the .357?

   Is it just a matter of making sure that if ammunition is scarce, you’re sure to be able to use any kind you can get your hands on? Or are there specific uses for each of these that all the others are unsatisfactory for? I can see the need for a .22 rifle, one of the semiauto rifles or the bolt gun, the shotgun, and one of the three larger-caliber pistols, it’s just the need for multiple weapons in each category I’m trying to figure out.

2. Head shooting anything at 500 meters with a .223 is a little iffy; more so if you expect to actually punch through it. The .308 is just warming up at that distance and will (in the right bullet) still kill a lightly skinned vehicle, punch through a window, etc.

   The .223 is really more of a high volume up close and personal sort of thing.

   think of it as layered defense:

   .308 to keep to 500-1000 meter area clear
   .223 for inside that
   .45/9mm for anyting that makes it past the first two

   Now since you can shoot something at 100 meters with a .308 as well as a .223, why not just jump straight to the .308 bolt and skip a .223 bolt. Because .223 ammo may be all that you have.

3. In addition to what said, and what you’ve suggested, I can tell you other reasons why *I* would want such redundancy: loss of inventory. Guns break, get lost, get stolen/confiscated, get left behind in locations you can’t reach, or may need to be given or traded away.

4. I don’t know about commander zero, but his list breaks down similar to mine. Most people consider .223 to be more of a mid-range ammo. If you want accuracy at long distances, the .308 is better. The .308 has other advantages, too, if you’re the sort who believes you may need to someday shoot through something (vehicle window, stone wall, saplings, etc.). There’s also usually a weight difference between .223s and .308s. An AR-15 weighs several pounds less than an M1A or a Savage 110. An M1A may be more accurate at long distance shots, but if you have a need to carry your weapon any distance, the AR-15 might be a better choice. Finally, the semiauto would be your weapon of choice if you need to get several shots off quickly, but bolt actions are more accurate.

   For pistols, .45 is my caliber of choice for semiautos and .357 is my caliber of choice for revolvers. Why? Because 1911s are my semiauto pistol of choice , and my Ruger GP100 is my revolver of choice.

5. I’m beginning to think that many semi-auto rifles can compete with bolt guns if you’re comparing them both out of the box with factory ammo. Now if you’re talking about something that’s accuratized and you’re using match ammo or handloads specifically worked up for that rifle, you’ve got a whole ‘nother ballgame.

   I’ve seen out of the box ARs shoot sub MOA with match ammo. Likewise I’m betting a good bolt gun would do the same. It really all boils down to just how crazy you want to get with it. You don’t seem like a bench racer/MOA chaser… 😉

6. Good choice! I expect shooting reports. I went with the Savage for my .308, but my next bolt gun will be a CZ 550 FS in 9.3mm Mauser.

7. optics

   I put the 2.5 -10 on my LTR.

   the glass is better than leopould. The illuminated reticle, (which I did not get, but wish I had.) is great.

   My buddy shots the 4-14. even better.

   http://www.valdada.com/vn/ior/03

   If you are intersted, I buy them from http://www.hicountrytactical.com

   also, try horandy amax, (Red tip) with around 43.5 grains of Ramshot Tac powder. If the barrel is at all worth a shit you should get better than 1/4 MOA. Using 42.5 grains of tac I am gettin three shot, one hole groups out of my 20″ barrel.

   I would love to hear a review on the HS stock after you have shot it awhile.

8. Because the selection of .366″ bullets is so great these days? Youre splitting the difference between a .35 Whelen (.35-’06) and a .375 Whelen (.375-’06)…both of which have much better bullet selections than the 9.3.

   Or are you just in the mood for ballistic wierdness?

9. Well, a large part of it is ammo availability.

   .22, .45, 9mm, .38 and .357 can all be utilized with the four pistols listed above…that probably represents the majority of ammo youd come across.

   Same for .223/.308. For house to house, .223 is fine and dandy. Punching through cars is .308 work. I failed to mention Ive also the 7.62×39 AK as well, so I can get ammo off anyone wearing a uniform.

10. I’d not shoot factory ammo when Ive got all the equipment and experience for making very good reloads. (Although I might keep a few boxes of Fed Gold Match around.)

    I think an SR-25 or a PSG-1 would be as accurate as a top notch boltgun out of the box…but a ‘field grade’ gun like an AR-10, FAL or M1A? I dunno…

11. My experience with the AR-10: MOA. M1A: not certain, but given the fact that I managed a 3 shot group through one hole with mine at 50 yards, I’m guessing MOAish as well. Couldn’t tell you about the FAL, I’ve heard they don’t compare in the accuracy department but they rule in the reliability department. The AR-10 platform is STUPID accurate. Get the 10-T 24″ barreled upper for it and you can shoot 900 yards all day long with the right optics. I’m not fond of the AR-10 for other reasons, but accuracy capability is not anything I’d ever poo poo about one. (Heavy, cranky, parts availability, parts price, those are the things I’d complain about.)

12. Zero,

    Don’t overlook the Tasco Super Sniper SS10x42 from http://www.riflescopes.com for $299.95.

    I have one on my Savage 10FP and it is nice optics, mil-dot reticle etc.

    madkiwi

13. How many bullets do you need? One decent 286 or 300 gr. bullet is all I ask for. I just figure a nice Mauser rifle ought to be chambered for a nice Mauser cartridge.

14. I agree that there are several semi-auto makers out there now that can match most bolt guns for accuracy, but the bolt guns still have a few advantages. There are fewer parts so there is less to go wrong, they will work no matter what the temperature or how dirty, and they are lighter to carry. Given all that, I still prefer my semi-autos and would grab them first in a SHTF scenario. 😉 (Less recoil, faster second shot, larger internal magazine capacity, greater intimidation factor…)

15. Niiiiiccceee…. I will definitely be interested in seeing what you put on for optics. It is interesting to see that you went with a less conventional bolt action .308 where common parts will be harder to find than, say, a Remington 700. But, I can’t fault your choice– I did the same thing and picked up a SIG STR in .308 several years back. {wry grin} Being a bolt gun, I expect both of these rifles to go through hell and back without missing a beat. I was going to add 7.62×39 to your list up there, but you mentioned it further down the line in another comment. Your collection is quite similar to mine… but I feel that we are both missing the all important anti-Graboid gun. 🙂 I am not sure I need something as big as a .416 Rigby, but I think a .300 Win Mag might be useful and is on my list for eventual purchase. Of course, a Barrett .50 would be most wonderful. Just not willing to pay that kind of money at this time. {sigh}

16. Youre very correct about the parts thing. I’m going to see about getting some extra springs, pins, firing pin, trigger parts, and the like.

    Im thinking that, more likely, I’ll get the Savage later as a spare.

    My problem with the 700’s, by the by, are the soldered-on bolt handle (Ive seen too many Remingtons with the handle snapped off when a hot load was stuck in the chamber) and I dont like the push feed.

    Ive come to admire the 7.62×39 cartridge greatly even if the guns arent the most accurate…however they do shine in the all-important category of reliability.

    For the Big Medicine I was thinking of a .300 magnum of some kind so I can stock .30 bullets for the .308, .30-06, etc….but for sheer weight, range, and bust-stuff-up a .50 is hard to beat..IF you can afford one. I cant. So I might go with a .338 Lapua…might. I really dont want to have to add another caliber (.338) to my logistics chain at this point. The .300 Win Mag, for availability reasons, seems a good choice though.

17. I’ve been asking friends what kinds of guns I should get. I just got a huge education just reading the comments to this one post.

    Unless you voice an objection, I’m adding you to my friends list. I’ve been interested in survival techniques and info for a long time.

18. Does the CZ ship in the HS stock like some Remmys do or was it an aftermarket?

    Optics wise, I’ve got a Loopy Vari-X III and a SS 10x. Both are very nice optics. For the money, I don’t think you can do much better in a tactical scope than the Super Sniper. (I belive you can spend an extra $100 and get it with a side Paralax adjustment knob instead of having to fiddle with the eyepiece.)

    Your list of basic items… can’t really find fault with any. I just wish I could figure out why people think the 12g is essential when you already have a non-barrier penetrating caliber (.223), a small game caliber (.22) and a game getting caliber (.308). The pattern spread is only a few inches at any practical home defense / self defense range, the recoil is greater, and the ammo bulkier. Maybe it’s just another side of my oddness coming out, but I just can’t see where it really fills a unique niche.

    OK… maybe ONE niche… that of what caliber are you most likely to find in ANY sporting goods and many hardware stores….

19. get that Ruger Mk II, you’ll never regret it. Of the handguns I’ve fired, my favorite is also the first I ever purchased: a Ruger Mk I with a four digit serial number on it. That joker is over fifty years old and is as accurate as the day it was issued.

20. Came with the HS stock which raised an interesting question from a buddy of mine – the gun comes with a factory target, implying this target was shot in Czech-land. But it wouldnt make sense to ship stocks there to then just ship them back to the US on a rifle. It makes MORE sense to ship the rifles to the US and then stock them with the HS stock..but if thats the case, then the rifle has a new stock and the factory target is moot.

    Shotguns have a certain visceral impact, so to speak…and theyre stopping power is pretty undeniable. And they can launch a variety of munitions.

21. True. I wasn’t thinking of the variety… Dragon’s Breath, CS, Rubber, beanbags, flechette, and so on. Hmmm…

    Effectiveness… Yes, they can deliver impressive ft/lbs to target. I just don’t see where the real difference is betwen being dead, really dead, and quite very dead. (I’m giving the .223 temporary wound channel credit to counteract the benefit of multiple low-V wound channels.) Maybe give the 12g an edge on low-V, low pressure being less likely to make you bleed about the eardrums? It’s the arguement I use for .45acp vs 9mm/.357/.357sig for HD purposes. I’ll have to consider that one.

    I still don’t like them, but I’ll consider upgrading their status to a Practical Novelty.

    I recall reading that one of the more universally recognized sounds is the racking of a shotgun slide. I have a problem with that though. It either means that you’ve just given up a fair percentage of your Ready Ammo or that you’ve gone to confront a threat with an inert weapon. Call me cranky if you will, but their option to run away should have been made before they entered my property or became a threat to me. At the point where you are confronting them with force of arms, I’m claiming the right of first decision.

22. I think we have one of everything on your list but the .357, but that’s only because we need another gun safe.

23. 300 win. mag

    I hope you don’t mind, that I added you, I would recommend the savage 300 win. mag. I am greatly pleased with mine, both in price, and function.

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