Link – Know Thy Enemy (During the Collapse)

As I’ve mentioned before, the Mormon theory behind why they let non-LDS use their food storage facilities is something along the lines of being a good neighbor, god would want us to, etc, etc. But there’s the equally plausible reason that if the neighbors have food and supplies they won’t come to your demanding yours and you won’t have to do something ugly.

While stumbling around the blogosphere, I found this:

This guy is your enemy.   (During the Collapse, that is.)

He doesn’t seem like it; in fact, he looks kind of wimpy.  He’s not a jack-booted Homeland Security trooper breaking down your door to take your guns, so he can’t be a threat, right?

Wrong.  Dead wrong.  He’s a bigger threat to most of you than the government.

RTWT. I’m not quite ready to believe that in a crisis everyone is my enemy. However, I am not naive enough to believe everyone is my friend.By and large, my neighbors just figure I’m that cranky old man down the street…like Clint Eastwood in ‘Gran Torino’. I’m sure they know I’ve got a few guns in the house, but this is Montana…it’s the rare household that doesn’t. However they have no idea about the food, fuel, meds, communications, batteries, etc.

My policy with the neighbors is basically this: be friendly, but don’t be their friends. I’ll be the neighbor who shovels your sidewalk when I’m shovelling my own, help you carry something heavy from your car, let you borrow the lawnmower, let your family park in my space when they visit for Thanksgiving, etc, etc….but you’ll never see the inside of my house, know what my views are, or anything else that should remain private. If someone asked my neighbors about me they could say I’m helpful, fairly polite and considerate, and thats it. They couldn’t tell you who I voted for, where I work, what food I like, or anything beyond what you learn waving at someone when you pass them on the sidewalk.

If a crisis comes along, my neighbors have no reason to think that my situation will be any different than theirs. And from a security perspective, that’s exactly how I want it.

Anyway, it’s an interesting post in an interesting blog and it’s worth a read, IMO.

29 thoughts on “Link – Know Thy Enemy (During the Collapse)

  1. So, no pooling of resources or neighborhood defense plan to provide for the common defense? Not a criticism, mostly just looking for your input to help me think about my neighbors as resources or obstacles.

    • My opinion is neutral. My point wasn’t that I wouldn’t help or work with my neighbors, rather it is that since I have no idea if they would be a resource or obstacle in a crisis it would be a good idea to ‘play it close to the vest’ before such a crisis.

      • Sort of my problem as well. I can control the “loose lips” in my household but Frank might be all about, “I got nothing to worry about, my friend and I have everything we need stored up at his place.”

        Keeps down those possible “Get off my lawn” moments in the future.

  2. “This guy” is less of a threat than the “good ole country boy that will survive” that has a bunch of guns (and more or less knows how to use them) yet has about 5 days worth of vienna sausages and PBR in his pantry.

    There’re a whole lot of stupid and/or amoral people involved in “prepping”/”survivalism” and many of them think no further than “I got me a gun and I will survive.” They believe in a fantasy version of reality, where once “the ballon goes up” they will be freed from all responsibility, and will live off the fat of the land, fishing, trapping and hunting, once there are no more annoying Game & Fish Department officers oppressing them.

    They’re probably more competent than “This guy” and they’ll last a while longer than he will…

    But unless they’re well out in the sparsely-populated boondocks, the available game and fish is not going to last long. And by the time they decide to go looting, the obvious places — the box stores and groceries — will be long since empty.

    When the food runs out, they’re still going to feel entitled, and they’re going to be hungry. And they know which end of a gun the biullets come out of. Not to mention how to operate a bulldozer, hot-wire a truck, etc.

    The “Golden Horde” won’t be inner-city welfare leaches. If those people had any ambition or initiative they wouldn’t be on the dole. It’s going to be semi-competent good ole boys who preferred to invest in jet skis and oversized pickups instead of rice and beans.

    • I always find it interest when someone brings up hunting and fishing. They always seem to forget about all that cattle, pigs, and chickens out there. In Texas we have counties where the cattle population exceeded the human population by 10 fold. I tend to believe Montana and Wyoming may have the same problem!!!

      The core resources we use everyday will still be there, its obtaining it that will present a logistical challenge. Maybe a little planning should be directed in solving this logistical challenge!

      • In a lot of cow and pig country those cows and pigs need imported feed and pumped water. Wouldn’t want to be down stream/wind of that when they start to die off.

        I think the best answer is just to figure out what you can and can’t live with risk wise and make the best of it.

        • I guess you never of wild boar. They breed like rabbits. A pig if release into the wild will survive and thrive. They will revert back to have long hair and longer teeth within two to three generations.

          • Sure there are wild boar in some places. But,
            really my point wasn’t about the availability of wild foods, but the mess left behind when a whole lot of farm animals die in a small area and risk analysis.

            A feedlot worth of dead cows or a CAFO sewer lagoon that springs a leak will easily contaminant the ground water around it and down stream of it for a long time and spread some pretty nasty diseases. That’s a risk to think about if you live in an area with a lot of pigs and cows.

            It seems to me that this sort of thing comes down to risk analysis: figuring out what’s likely to go wrong in an area, what risks you’re willing to live with, and mitigating for risks the best you can. The answer as to what risks you’re willing to live with is going to be different for everyone. I think the important thing here is to be asking questions about risk and trying to mitigating them. I really doubt there’s any preprogramed one big right answer for everyone.

    • What about them there city slickers with all them fast cars who think their money is going to save em…they could show up at your door when they flee the city…you say in your second post that you shouldn’t judge the bearded dweeb guy by his look because it could be a facade…but in this post you seem to have the idea of good ole boys as the bogeyman stuck in your craw…threats will come all directions and walks of life…many of the most prepared could die first in a true apocalyptic event…

  3. “This guy” — if he’s anything like the caraicature presented — isn’t going to do anything but whine. The only real threat he poses is that of an informer: will he grass you to the first real thug who appears, in the hope of getting a few crumbs as a commission?

    But don’t be so stupid as to buy into the propaganda — such as that put out by the author at 299 Days — that the “nice guy” next door is harmless. Multiple-tour combat arms veterans have kids, too, and a goofy smile and a silly beard can be nothing more than a facade.

    Fantasies about door-kicking federal stormtroopers serve some deep-seated need for many “survivalists,” but the real threat is far more likely to be neighbors close enough to smell you coking food while their kids go hungry. Paranoid attempts to cover all preparation measures are not going to prevent them from smelling your cooking, nor prevent them from noticing that your family is not gaunt and starving.

    If your neighbor is a useless leech, so be it. You can’t change him, and there’s only so much you can do to hide your own preparations. But if he’s not a completely useless shitbag — no matter how much the author wants to assume that he is — you’re far better off with a “this can’t ever happen” unprepared neighbor who’s the recipient of some rice and beans than you are with an unprepared and now desperately hungry neighbor.

  4. “If someone asked my neighbors about me they could say I’m helpful, fairly polite and considerate, and thats it.”

    No, he didn’t seem like the kind of guy to keep sex slaves in his basement. He always kept to himself.

    Cliché neighborhood psychopath.

    • Or post a link to someone wedding in 2008, where everyone was packing a gun so they could see what someone looks like!!! Not going to mention any names!!!

  5. Does a person that goes to these LDS canneries have to provide an address or some type of identification to use the facility ? Because if that were the case, it would be simple enough to find out just who has what stored rather easily.

    I only ask this because I have no idea if I.D. is required. Meant no disrespect to any of the parties involved.

    Yeah, the next door neighbors can be your worst enemy if they know too much information. The ‘friendly but distant’ approach like you describe sounds like a good way to go.

    • Im trying to figure out how asking if ID is required is somehow disrespectful.

      Each time I’ve gone they don’t ask for ID or anything. However, I was paying in cash so if you paid by check that might be a different story.

      • Sorry – my comment of ‘no disrespect’ was directed to any LDS readers who may have taken offense to an accusation of being a potential raider. Most of the LDS persons I’ve met have been pretty good. Only one tried to talk me into ‘True Believer’ information – I tried to be respectful but I don’t try and talk anyone into changing religions. I require the same of them.

  6. I’m not LDS but have volunteered for years in their local facility (back when it was self-pack, I ran the line a lot of days). There may be differences, but of the ones I am familiar with, they Encourage you to pay cash and do not require any ID. The will ask for a name and phone number on the sales form in case there is any later problem with a batch of food so they can recall it but there is nothing to keep you from putting down a fake name and number.
    The folks at the facility are some of the best humans I have ever met and I always leave the facility feeling better than I did when I arrived,

  7. I don’t do ANY social media. My wife on the other hand just has to put pics of us on her facebook. No bullet launchers in any of them though. After a Army career with a trip to the cat litter box, I feel that I just don’t want to be around people much less socialize with them through any media outlet. If they want to find out about me, ask me. I promise to be nice…once. After that, it’s on you.

  8. I want to know my neighbors well, and for those I can be friends with, I want them to know me. I’ll take them shooting, let them check out my gun safe if they’re interested, etc. If I’m lucky, they’ll ask the right questions and I can get them thinking along the lines of self-sufficiency and simple emergency planning.

    First, I have young children. My odds of survival in any crisis are far greater when I stick close to where my resources and defenses are laid deep. So I’m bugging in, not leaving home.

    The likelihood of any emergency being limited and localized (tornado, earthquake, fire, etc.) is much greater than a TEOTWAWKI event that turns 90% of the earth’s population into cannibals. In either case, I still want to know in advance of the emergency which ones of my neighbors are reliable and like-minded. It’s also good to know which neighbors are good mechanics, who’s an engineer, who’s the best gardener, who else shoots, who hunts, who’s a veteran, etc. The value of that advanced knowledge is far greater than the risk of outing yourself as a prepper, and you only get that information by being an engaged member of your neighborhood community.

    Of course, if all your neighbors are assholes, crooks, thieves and democrats, you should probably move.

  9. Forget the neighbors….my SPOUSE has no idea that there’s a years worth of food, etc tucked away in the basement, let alone any knowledge of firearms & ammo.

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