“The only difference between death and taxes is that death doesn’t get worse every time Congress meets.” -Will Rogers
I was going to pay my property taxes the other day and I could not find the stupid second half of the property tax bill. As you know, property tax bills usually come as a binary sort of thing….you make one payment for around half the total, and six months later you make the other half. Then, six months after that, .gov comes back and starts the whole thuggish cycle over again.
So, I was looking and looking and looking…no success. Finally I said ‘screw it’ and went online to look up how much to send to the weasels at the county courthouse. “PAID IN FULL”….huh….and then I remembered: I did well enough last year that I decided to pay the entire tax bill at once. Yay me.
I started wondering – if a period of great economic upheaval occurs..inflation, high unemployment, wage and price controls, shortages, etc…gov is still gonna demand their pound of flesh. And when you are jobless, foodless, and cashless is the worst time to lose your house to some local .gov that insists it get paid even when it’s doing nothing but serving (and saving) itself.
Obviously, the thing to do would be to have enough money in he bank to pay the property taxes for a couple years. But here’s the problem with that…if the economy craps the bed enough that you’re without a job, hungry, and subject to the ravages of inflation, that money in the safe isn’t going to keep pace with your taxes which the .gov will conveniently adjust for inflation. And suddenly that stack of $100 bills in the safe that you thought would cover your property taxes won’t even buy you a new pair of shoes (assuming the stores still have shoes.) So what’s a savvy survivalist to do? Well, I suppose you can hope that in such a crisis things will be chaotic enough that property tax collection will be the last thing on .gov’s mind as it valiantly throws beleaguered police and National Guardsman into the fray of rioters, looters, demonstrators, criminals, and anarchists. Mmmm maybe. Or I can try to hedge my bets and have something to sell for the inflated currency necessary to pay the taxes.
And then I thought about the gold. Hmmm. I should have thought of this before. Keep a couple years of property taxes handy in gold. That way if inflation heads to the moon, it’ll take gold with it. In other words, two ounces of gold pays my property taxes now, and in Weimar-town two ounces of gold still pays my taxes. (Assuming that the tax rate remains the same. Obviously in a crisis .gov is going to raise taxes, so perhaps a little extra gold just in case.)
The more I think about this, the more I like the idea.
Don’t forget the option of purchasing a home in a place that does not have property taxes…
I hear this is a part of the reason some folks pick one particular retirement state over a different one.
Tax and regulatory burden should also be on peoples’ radar when looking at moving to a job in a new state. Job in *new state* may come with a pay increase, but the impact of the higher tax burden may not give you the gains you expect.
That works both ways.
Someone can leave CA, for example, for a 10% pay cut, and break even, just by getting out of a state with a 10% personal income tax rate, piled on top of Uncle’s demands, and moving to one where it’s 0%.
What state in the US doesn’t have property taxes? Answer: none
And even if there were, what state legislature would hesitate to pass one if all their other revenue sources collapsed?
That’s one of the problems with governments … if they find they are losing, they change the rules. It’s like dealing with Darth Vader, “”I am altering the deal. Pray I do not alter it any further.”
In that situation, we are dealing with a form of thievery, and thieves have no honor.
You’re doing it again.
http://raconteurreport.blogspot.com/2021/05/and-another-thing.html
Sound reasoning for another layer of peace of mind. I also consider the bigger picture of government enforcement. If the economy is so bad that property taxes will make half the homeowners homeless, the government will not be around for long if it enforces that tax burden. I would count on the survival instincts of most all politicians to keep the peace over some new gulag style of governing. They can only be heavy handed in a highly selective way. If I owned a highly desirable home that someone might want to get for next to nothing, then I would be more concerned. My home is squarely in the middle of the pack.
“purchasing a home in a place that does not have property taxes…” – there’s no free lunch – from what I’ve seen, with low (and I suspect no) property taxes, other taxes will be there to take up the slack – car registration fees, sales tax, etc., etc.
There is no state I am sure they were thinking about the two with no state income tax one having pretty high property tax rates and others to get their pound of flesh.
I think its eight states with no state income tax.
Joe wins the prize. They will get their pound of flesh.
I have tried in 3 states to pay property taxes in advance and they wont take it. Same thing for prepaying auto insurance. My current insurer wont take more than 6 months payment at a time. I’ve told them i dont mind paying the difference when the next (more expensive) cycle rolls around but they wont hear of it.
fwiw, your state is different than mine. its Payment In Full each year with hi interest penalties.
I think your gold plan is a good one.
Two points. First, when I lived in Michigan, the county staggered their property tax bills so that you could pay in a period that straddled the change in federal tax years. This allowed people to aggregate their property tax deductions for purposes of federal income tax. That made it worthwhile for people who might otherwise not itemize, to itemize every other year.
Second, any economic collapse is going to last more than a couple of years. Maybe just having enough gold (assuming they allow you to keep it and sell it) for a few years worth of property taxes just delays the inevitable? Or maybe it gets you through the initial period where they are still enforcing/collecting property taxes, until things collapse so badly that there is no real authority left to do the collecting?
Many a Great Depression family saw their homes-farms SOLD for Taxes on the Steps of the Courthouse to Bankers well Protected by Local Sheriffs.
There is a REASON that Bonnie and Clyde and such murdering thugs were POPULAR almost Mythical media interest back then. Most folks saw them as “Heroes” against the MAN.
Even if we go full warlord SOMEBODY will be collecting Taxes. That’s the nature of people, some folks want to rule, gain like minded folks around them and DO SO and others get ruled. So figure out how to pay taxes friends.
To the “I stand ALONE-Brave-and Proud”, Dead people don’t have to pay taxes, congrats!! You WIN…
A tribe survives because they work together.
Skills and stuff that folks want and NEED will always be available to pay the taxes-rent-tribute-and so on. That’s why horrid bath tub Gin sold so well in that era. Vices don’t go away.
The trouble with Gold is if you pay with your “Wedding Ring” to help your family stay in their home, they *MIGHT* accept that’s all you have. That Wedding Ring “Trade” got my Grandparents out of Weimar Germany just after Kristallnacht.
When you pay with a couple of coins THEY start wondering HOW much More you have.
Murder for profit, it’s a thing as far back as mankind.
Losing property because of a mortgage is at least symbolically different than losing it because of a tax lien.
If there was a mortgage, it was because they actually had borrowed money from someone and didn’t pay it back. A foreclosure seems like justice, if not a happy ending.
Property taxes, in a time of social upheaval, are nothing but tribute. Paying rent to someone who doesn’t own your property and to whom you didn’t borrow money. If times are bad, you won’t have the option of telling the county you don’t need their services this year, so skip the taxes. It becomes a coercive one-sided “deal.”
The word youre looking for is ‘extortion’ or as we used to call it in the old neigborhood, ‘protection’.
That’s why you should consider buying used jewelry from the guys that buy gold. Very often you can get it for the scrap price (maybe $20 more than the guy paid for it).
A good friend’s father bought his family’s passage out of Czechoslovakia as the Iron Curtain was going up with a single gold earring. He was a boy at the time and remembered that people had fistfuls of cash to offer to the border guards, but it was refused. His and only one other family got across the border into Austria.
If things got that bad there would be an almost total breakdown of society and I doubt the gubmint would have the personnel or resources to enforce property tax payments or confiscation in the event of non payment. Especially in rural areas where there will be armed groups of like minded folks. Who are they going to send into my farm in the middle of rural Georgia to enforce the tax or take my property? What s he gonna do walk from the town that s 30 miles away? I suspect the tax man, the police or anyone else caught up in a total economic upheaval would be looking for food, water, ammo, fuel and shelter just like the rest of the golden horde.
That’s what I would hope for. When the county runs out of tax collectors and sheriff’s deputies to serve the property owners the papers to enforce the tax lien, the whole property tax and forced sale thing will come to a screeching halt.
Those judges, law enforcement, and county employees have to live among us. If the CDC can unilaterally declare a moratorium on evictions, most places will be forced to do something similar with regard to residential property taxes.
Perhaps if things go full Mad Max. But what if things are like the 1930s? A lot of people did OK during that time. A lot did not. No Mad Max, just hard times for some. Which side would you be on?
Property taxes are another reminder that we do not own the home and/or property that we thought we owned. The state/county really owns it and we HAVE to pay the rent (property tax) or guess what………eviction! You lose!
The concept you propose is reasonable; of course, you will need to convert your gold to dollars and then immediately pay the property taxes. Another factor to keep in mind: in a time of crisis the government will need to settle for what people can typically pay. It will do no one any good to have massive defaults and evictions: apart from the social upheaval and potential for violence/revolution it does no one any good to have a large number of abandoned homes. Even if some large, politically protected conglomerate (or the Chinese government) buys up the abandoned homes for pennies on the dollar, the value of the homes will rapidly decrease with no one to live in them, maintain them, and protect them from squatters. In short, you do not need to keep up with government greed; you only need to stay ahead of most of your neighbors.
That’s the logic that g-grandpa used before the Depression. Then FDR confiscated the gold, and the land was sold at a tax auction a few years later. What was done once can be done again, so don’t put too much in gold. Magazines, on the other hand…
Out of curiosity, did FDR’s federal agents come to g-granpa’s house and trash it as they searched for the now-contraband gold? Or did g-grandpa willingly surrender it? I ask, because there’s a big difference between the two when it comes to thinking about gold for the future. If the feds made gold contraband again I certainly wouldn’t be handing mine in.
Commander Zero I think I can speak to that query. From my family stories and historical records I’ve read IF you were found to Have Gold after the “lawful Turn In dates” you LOST that gold with out recovery, PAID A HUGE Fine AND spent a large part of your life in Prison. I could look up the exact Prison Time and Fines if you like.
Fact was IF you still had some Buried Gold, yeah you had some buried gold. IF you tried to sell it for Dollars or such you were deep inside the Black Market with all the hazards thereof. Oh and BTW I understand the Gov.com had snitches-informants even then for buying illegal Gold.
Gold then was Required for FDR’s Socialist New Deal as the LAW Required some (IIRC) 14 cents worth of Gold for Every Dollar in circulation. Even then they had Fractional Gold Backing Accounting. Thus by “Acquiring” lots of Gold from the People @20.67 an Ounce THEN Re-evaluating the price of Gold to 35 dollars and ounce, FDR had a HUGE amount of Legal Extra Fractional Gold Backed Dollars to spend.
Oh and BTW the American Public took a 40% haircut in the Value of those dollars FDR gave them for their gold. Nifty eh?
So Commander whom do you trust with your life and freedom to trade that Gold with IF they AGAIN decide to pull a FDR? If I recall getting murdered over gold has been a *thing* for 100’s of years…
BTW I too have PM’s as well as other precious metals, far more in my hand assets than I have cash in the Bank.
I know that PM’s like 50.00 bills are useful in many situations. But like the Funny Money in Vietnam issued to US troops but useless after THAT month as done our pretty dead presidents can also become worthless.
Skills, Tools, Seeds, Trusted Friends and a good relationship with my Creator are my main source of peace of mind in the coming Chaos.
G-grandpa put most of his gold in a ‘safe deposit box’ after a burglary. The bank ‘turned the gold in for him’.
G-grandpa still had some gold stashed, but had a hard time selling it. Eventually he found a jeweler who gave him the same amount that the feds were supposed to pay.
“Who are they going to send into my farm in the middle of rural Georgia to enforce the tax or take my property? What s he gonna do walk from the town that s 30 miles away?”
–traditionally it’s the local sheriff. And they don’t hesitate much, unless history is broken and people have miraculously changed. As for walking, he’s probably got an armored car courtesy of the Fedgov, and he assuredly knows where you live.
“I suspect the tax man, the police or anyone else caught up in a total economic upheaval would be looking for food, water, ammo, fuel and shelter just like the rest of the golden horde.”
–yes, they will be, and the way they get it is by doing their jobs and enforcing the edicts of local.gov. This is what history says anyway. Again, history may have broken and people may have changed, but I don’t think so.
–things don’t have to collapse all the way for the sheriff to come turf you out. They DO have to collapse all the way for you to just shoot them when they show up. And then all their friends and relations come and shoot you back.
If just not paying your taxes is the extent of your plan, there is definitely some bad stuff in your future. (for the generic “you”)
n
“But here’s the problem with that…if the economy craps the bed enough that you’re without a job, hungry, and subject to the ravages of inflation, that money in the safe isn’t going to keep pace with your taxes which the .gov will conveniently adjust for inflation.”
Not sure about where you are in Idaho, but Texas has a percentage cap on how much local government can raise taxes each year. So even if inflation is 1000 percent, local government is still only allowed by law in Texas to raise it by no more then 10 percent. Persons over 65 who file for the exemption have their taxes frozen at their last years amount until they sell or die.
But that relies on .gov not changing laws to suit the circumstances. As we’ve seen, under the guise of ’emergency measures’ .gov changes, suspends, introduces, enforces, or chooses not to enforce all sortsa laws.
Good thing the Texas legislative only meets every two then!!! When they end this session, they will not meet again until January-June 2023.
left out every two “year”
Side note: Texas is joining the ranks of state like Montana this year and becoming a constitutional carry state!!!!
In my healthcare days, I took care of an old lady who was loaded with cash, bonds, stocks, etc. She and her family were real louts who wanted everyone to know how much smarter, better, and well off they were. The old lady’s fondest memory of her childhood is when her mother and her step dad bought a magnificent house in Minnesota for just the taxes. The man, whose family had built the house, was out of work and so couldn’t keep the taxes up. But her step dad worked at the post office and so his salary never stopped. The old lady would reminisce about how they could have never afforded such a grand house if it were not for The Depression! It was her start to the good life.
Well, folks wore civilization as a badge of honor then. Nowadays? I am thinking the tax collectors, and government-still-employed workers will be shot on sight. It will not be what it was.
^That, right there.
Rule .308 will be universally enforced, and at that point, sherrifing and other such jackbooted thuggery will cease to be a means of existence, at about Mach 3.
And anybody coming around to seize property in his shiny .Gov armored car is going to be the quickest recipient of a gift of gasoline, about one wine bottle at a time.
Send a tank, and when you get out to pee, you’ll take one between the running lights too.
Government, any government, forgets that it rules only with the active consent of the governed, at its own peril. The mortality rate of those rulers approaches 100% if they don’t drop the hot potato quick enough.
You or the county citizens collectively may get a moratorium on taxes due, (like rent / mortgage in some states now due to covid) only as a result of some such no postman scenarios every prepster fantasizes about, but they will need to be payed up, maybe with a certain percentage waivered, but not a totally free lunch for a “long time G.I.” period of time. Render unto caesar like you are supposed to, tough guys included, so just figure out how to come up with the money.
Be like me, (crazy as a fox thinker) pre pay extra on the utilities services to my paid for house. The natural gas, water, electric accounts have 12 to 18 months of surplus balance carried on the accounts. Like a bank account on something I always need and use. Been doing it for many many years with no issues from them. The bills are tabulated accordingly any extra I send in on any bill payments. I can ☆”NOT”☆ have to pay for those concerns for a long stretch and worry about paying for something else that comes up. Like maybe an appendectomy bill or some such. Huh?
Of course a situation where the public utilities shut down and can no longer send gas, electricity or water your way for any number of reasons could occur (remember the Colonial Pipeline?)
I’m not saying you’re wrong – just that there is no easy answer to any of this. If the communists manage to take power, they’re not going to pay even a penny on the dollar. They’re just going to take your house and land.
So, make a pact with your neighbor that *neither* of you will pay your property taxes. When your properties are seized and auctioned for taxes, he buys yours, and you buy his.
Even-Steven, baby! 😉
“Legal Tender” for all debts public and private. What will be the recognized medium of exchange? Fed Coin, FRN’s (Federal Reserve Notes). Biden Bucks?
Dot Gov will accept what they accept when they accept. Maybe a VAX stamp? aka Mark of the Beast?
Maybe, don’t worry about it for the time being? My bet is to keep enough FRN’s on hand to pay your “rent” for your property for a year or two. Keep some Wampum on hand, (you define Wampum) for other contingencies and then “wing it” after that. In a WROL, what wood work best? You can be creative.
Cheers,
Y’All ought to be smart enough to figure it out after that. Don’t over think it.
Interesting to see all the comments about why you shouldn’t bother.
I guess they miss that the whole point is to try to *prepare* for contingencies instead of just reacting. (and that the gold is good for other things if you don’t need it to pay taxes.)
Personally, I’d rather have options other than murder, mass murder, and a short life as a fugitive. YMMV of course, but if that is your plan, why wait?
nick
Too many preppers cling to that SHTF is only some Mad Max event so they can live out some fantasy they have created inside their heads. 2020 was a SHTF event for many including myself. Didn’t have to shoot anyone, didn’t have to bugout, but the events of last year has changed my life forever. I was prepared for much of it and breezed through it without worrying about how to pay bills being unemployed, stores closed etc however some of it blindsided me.
Forget about gold/silver bullion/coins. If you want to secret away some PM then buy some 22K gold chains/rings from Indian (dot) jewelery store.
Granted not many of those outside of big metro areas but make a trip to big city. Yeah you’ll pay a slight premium but learn to dicker. Premiums are negotiable.
Another point….study and practice calculating grams of chain weight to equivalent in oz/$ gold. Indians bamboozled me with frantic punching of calculator when I first shopped. Next time, I brought my own calc and knew how to do the grams to oz conversion plus I learned to just say politely, “too high, I’ll come back another time….”. Amazingly they recalc’d the price. Shazaam!
Even if your gold hunt comes up empty step next door into jeweler’s brother-in-law’s grocery and buy a couple sacks of jasmine rice, few jars of pickled mango, some tamarind and date chutney and a few bags of various lentils/pulses. The variety will help break the monotony of what ever you have tucked away in the larder from white bread Costco on day 700 of the collapse.
Finish the day at cousin’s restaurant and have the buffet…..order the chai and almond paste confections for dessert.
In Ferfal’s writings of him living in Argentina during their economic collapse, he had mentioned many times how basic jewelry was better than coins or cash because it was easier to conceal and liquidate. I’ve thought about getting a small bag of silver rings in various sizes just to put away.
Since any money I have in the bank is losing value due to inflation (pick a number, any number…), the same is true for any investment. Let’s call real inflation at 10%. My gold/silver coins retain their value independent of inflation: . My savings lose X%, and my investments might or might not gain value – they would have to make more than inflation every year. Au, Ag and Pb seem like a good investment. They ‘make money’ as the $20 silver coin is now $27 or so. Not sure how my investments compare.
Do a trial run to see if your idea even works. Go pay your property taxes with gold. They won’t take it. They may not even take cash. Though a different form of tax, I tried to pay income tax ($2000) with cash at the IRS office and they refused it. Told me I have to use the cash to purchase a certified check from the bank. It’s a little far fetched to believe a gov’t drone at the counter is going to know how much your gold is worth.
Our property tax here in ruralville is about $900 per year, payed in 2 chunks like you described. In ye oldt cookie jar on top of the kitchen cabinets is $4000 in 20 dollar bills for paying the property tax if things go sideways. I may up that amount as we slide into the worsening future.
I think you misunderstand. I didnt say to pay the property taxes in gold, I said to keep the property taxes in gold. When inflation hits and the currency you set aside a year ago is devalued, you exchange the gold for current rate of currency and pay with that currency.