I had mentioned that I was going to look at a property last weekend. Unfortunately, a couple days before my anticipated expedition, the owners decided they were just gonna pull it off the market and leave it to their kids. So…that one is outta the running.
As a side note, I went and visited, for the third time, my not-quite-everything-I-want candidate on Saturday. It has potential, but, merciful Crom, its a bit of a brutal drive to get there once you leave the pavement. It’s approx. 16 miles off the paved interstate and the quality of the road is such that 20 mph is about the best you can do. And in the winter, well, you’re gonna need a seriously dedicated machine to get in there. But, thats not necessarily a bad thing…it’ll keep the crowds out. I’m fine with that. My plans involve buying a 4-wheeler and a snowmobile anyway.
I’m really torn between making an offer on it and committing, and waiting to see what else turns up. I have an irrational fear of dropping the hammer on this thing and then three weeks later something ‘more perfect’ becomes available. But, this problem exists with everything…houses, wives, cars, property, dinner specials.
At the moment, I’m wargaming ways to utilize/develop the creek that runs through the property. Im thinking the way to go is to pump water to a storage tank at the top of the hill, and then let gravity do the work to provide pressure down at the potential building site. I need to do some math and and other calculations, as well as plot logistics for size of tank and how to transport the bloody thing. But, even if I dont get this particular piece of dirt it’s still a good experiment to run in my head since, eventually, its gonna have to happen somewhere.
Winter selling season is almost here. Can you wait until snow is imminent?
Well, I could wait for snow season but I dont think thats really going to change anything. I think the owners might lower the price once winter hits and no one wants to go out there to look at the place, or the owners might just throw up their hands and pull it off the market. Who knows. If I wait till spring I’ll certainly have a bunch more money to throw at it or a different piece. Dunno what Im gonna do yet. My original thought was to offer 25% below what they were asking and go as high as 17% below.
When my BOL became available it only took one look to know it was the one. We spent hours looking at it and doing math, but just to make sure we weren’t letting our hearts get the better of us. We’d also been looking for 5 years so we knew it was what we wanted when we saw it.
I will grant that it isn’t the perfect BOL. THAT we put a deposit on, but my wife wasn’t thrilled with it. It was at the end of the road, against a national forest, with an artesian spring, mature fruit trees and garden, and a stand alone smokehouse. And on the water. But the apocalypse has been not coming for -ever-, and a place in the country we can use now, and retire to, is a more conservative and prudent choice. Becoming part of the local community should help offset some of the downsides.
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If you do decide to take the bird in hand, don’t forget that you can use two easy to move tanks instead of one big one, and you can apply that to most of your needs as well.
If you can’t lift a case of soda, buy 12 packs, and if you can’t lift 12’s buy six packs….
n
Our cabin in Alaska is 100 miles from town on the road grid and accessible by car
I have friends who have places at the end of the roads but miles back in the bush accessible only by four wheeler in the summer or snow machine in the winter
One winter they were snow machining in while pulling a sled ran into mama moose with a calf behind them got attacked and had to shoot her
In Alaska that then required the Troopers and state fish and game to investigate
You then get to butcher it and hand it over
Our place is on the road system but still remote and 100 miles from town
George
Mr CZ. If this is the property that the lower land owner has a pipe running through it for his water supply you might want to weigh what might happen if its cut off. He has had access for years and may feel entitled to it. I think that you are starting off with a potential liability, buying a property someone else has his tentacles wrapped around. Just my opinion, you are way ahead of the curve. Thanks Al
He doesnt have an easement, and the owners live out of state, so I am inclined to believe that this was just something that was done. However, it is close to the edges of the property as they are shown on the GPS. A real survey would need to be done to see if, indeed, those broders are accurate and he is, in fact, on the proeprty.
Zero-can’t you sink a well instead of the arduous task of a tank and pumps and water lines etc?
If you’re not sure, it’s not right. Every time I bought a home/property, I knew the instant I set foot on it.
I’d wait…
The water thing could fail when you need it the most…
Also, the 16 miles of rough travel will dampen getting supplies, to your place in a timely manner…
Don’t be that kid in the candy store…
In my locale, just HAVING water on the property is a huge advantage. Way back in Great Depression days, Mom and a paired sister was sent to collect water from the communal hose bibb, limiting it to a half bucket in each hand. More than that and the walking would slosh contents out. The spare pair of hands was to take turns carrying them.
Just noticed Rawles (Survivalblog) has an entry in Readers snippets about his criteria for selecting rural property. November 8, 2025. Might want to slip on by and see if he has some tips – comments that might help you with property evaluation.
Hello there. I’ve been reading your blog for awhile and following your quest for the perfect plot.
As Nick mentioned, numerous smaller tanks might be the better choice. Easier to move but also if one is damaged you’re not totally screwed.
And to quote Tony Stark: How did you solve the icing problem?
Pipes need to be either deep enough underground or heated somehow.
Years ago, my wife (now ex) looked at buying a resort property in the Poconos.
The water source was a well on a hill above the property. About 400′ run of 1 1/4″ pvc pipe above ground. The previous owners just shut everything down in November, but we wanted to live there year round.
Bottom line: I couldn’t figure a cost effective way to keep the water running.
(best answer would have been to sink a new well close to the main house)
That became the deciding factor of why we didn’t buy it.
The former owner of our property lived in Florida, and like the place in the Poconos you mention, he didn’t stay there in the winter. After our above-ground pipe froze multiple times over two winters, we buried the 800-foot run of black PE pipe from our spring. Cost less than a third of drilling a well and we get gravity-fed water that requires no power. About 80 percent of the houses on our road use a similar system.
Larry C recently posted a memory of YArd Moose Mountain that included a SERIOUS water tank. You might reach out and see what his experiences and thought processes were.
WRT the access:
Is there any scope for considerable improvement if you were to rent a dozer for a weekend and improve the worst bits?
Yes. In fact, I drove up there last weekend with a buddy of mine who has 30 years of commercial truck driving, inc logging trucks, experience. Wanted him to give me his impression of the road network in regards to getting things like a well-drilling truck, etc. According to him. Its okay right up to the second, alternate entrance to the property. That route will need to have some saplings yanked out and a bit of grader or dozer work but should be far easier then the primary access into the property.
Well then, factor that into the cost…
I am. I just emailed the realtor and offered 25% below their ask just to see what happens.
Good luck!
Gravity fed water would be great, but do you have to worry about the lines freezing? Where I live we have to get all the lines below the frost line, and then we still need heat tape where it comes above ground.
With respect to the water plan, unless you put heat trace in the line if the water is not flowing enough during the winter months it will freeze and stay frozen until spring
We have that problem in our cabin in the interior of Alaska and had heat trace installed in the line from the well to the cabin
Wishing you the best of luck, 25 years ago I did what you’re doing now. Turn key place with a 19 x 23 cabin that was built in around 1950. 5 gallon per minute spring ,electricity, septic . Etc. I replaced a lot of rotten wood build a porch torn down existing structures and attached two other parcels. I am now on the backside of 70. It has been a labor of love all I can say is whatever you do be sure it will appreciate in value. Also you can spend a great deal on access. If you don’t hold it you may not own it. My saving grace was the older couple didn’t want to climb the mountain anymore and dwelling was set up with power , water and septic.
My sister’s place in Big Sur got their water from the river that ran through it. We buried a sandpoint(?) in the bed of it during summer, and ran a line beyond the bank. That was connected to a pump that pushed it to the top of the hill behind the house, where they had a large plastic tank mounted. Maybe a hundred feet high? That tank was what gave the house it’s water pressure. The pump was run when the tank got emptied a certain amount. Electric service was somewhat variable. I’ll have to ask her, but I think it might have been 1k gallons? House was only two occupants.
Free water uphill with enough flow/volume: hydraulic ram
“16 miles…20 mph” Just a sec, I gotta take off my socks.
So, a 48 minute wait for the ambulance once it leaves the good road?
If SHTF, there might not BE an ambulance but until things go south, what kind of response time, if any, do you think? Just morbidly curious.
Theres a 6-way dirt road intersection a few miles away that plenty flat, unobstructed, and clear for a med chopper.
Remember: “Best is the enemy of good.”
That said, I understand not wanting to spend that kind of money now, just to have something better come along in a few weeks. See where things stand in the Spring and proceed accordingly if you haven’t found something better by then would be my advice..
I know how to calculate for a well but not what you want. Sorry..
We made offers on three places before one was accepted. I occasionally drive by the first one, which we low-balled because it needed work, and think how lucky we were they turned us down.
I like your plans for the water. You really don’t need much. Our spring gives a gallon every 90 seconds to two minutes, depending on the time of year, but that fills up the cistern. We only run out of water when something breaks or freezes.
Following. The first property you looked at and are assessing and wargaming on can be held back on the back burner, pending more research and assessing your own capabilities or logistics plans to “make that a fit” for you. Continue to search and plot out on other possible candidates out there, as a better piece may arise by only just coming on the market, or you find a diamond in the rough by looking longer or deeper. Those deeper hidey holes, although a tactical advantage, may be a strategic drain on your resources. You may have to park the truck 16 miles downhill at a farmer’s place and use a snowmachine etc to get back and forth up to your snug little cabin in the winter which may be a half a year or more. Those parcels being undeveloped and rural isolated even to 2025 year time frames is for a reason. The cost expenditure curve for folks is beyond most, except heavy industries capital expenditures to make it worth it. Logging, mining, .gov-.mil, big money resources available. Even the billionaires buy into a little less challenging terrain for their redoubts. Happy hunting, stay frosty.
Check into ram pumps, that might be an option for you- might work really well if the geometry works out.
https://www.backwoodshome.com/pump-water-for-free-by-kai-moessle/