So I’d like to keep a low profile in regards to..well..everything….as I develop stuff on the property. Propane tanks are, it seems, uniformly a bright white color that is going to look a tad conspicuous amongst all the greenery. My first inclination is to just grab a couple cans of olive green paint and a brush. Perusing the internet shows me that it may not be that simple.
From what I’ve read, propane tanks are the color they are in order to reflect and prevent the absorption of heat. If a tank heats up in the sun, the contents can expand and at some point vent themselves through a safety valve, thereby reducing your amount of available propane. Painting a propane tank a camo color would only increase its absorption of heat. And, although Im not clear on this, in some cases it may not be strictly legal to paint a propane tank. (Although that might only be for rented tanks. No matter, my plan is to buy.)
So, if you want a discreet propane tank, your other alternative, it seems, is to obscure it. But, propane tanks are one of those things that, as I read it, you don’t really want in an enclosed space. Personally, what I thought would be optimal would be to pour a slab to put the tank on and then build up a wall of railroad ties or similar on either side of the tank and then berm them to provide visual camo and protection from stray projectiles. Something not too dissimilar to this:
Again, this is my uninformed opinion, but it appears that enclosing/shrouding or otherwise corralling a propane tank is feasible as long as theres enough airflow so that if a tank springs a leak, the propane doesn’t all accumulate in one spot. (Being heavier than air, it will puddle out to low lying areas but I would think it’ll dissipate better in that circumstance than if it were all ‘bottled up’ in a structure of some kind.)
Whaddyou think?
I bought a 1000.gallon buried tank.
That is the best way to go. Digging is costly though, so consider a crib with a roof and good ventilation (such as open eaves or a raised roof) and then camo the roof to match surroundings for aerial obscurity.
I’ll call BS on the color issue. We bought a big tank about 15 years ago. Its installed outside here in the low-ish southern Arizona desert where stuff gets too hot to touch in the summer. Note that these tanks are big enough to have enough thermal inertia to actually stay closer to the 24 hour average temperature, than the high of the day. It arrived pre-painted, and is a fairly dark ‘dirt’ brown. I’ve never smelled a whiff of venting, nor have I observed any loss of inventory. Physics (and propane company practices) ensure that you won’t overpressure unless they overfill the tank. If you are worried (I wouldn’t be if up there with those temperatures), you could put it where the the tank is shaded by trees or whatever in the afternoons.
Different states may have different rules; but in the upstate South Carolina, you can bury your propane tank leaving only a small opening for fuel truck hose access. This is usually reserved for 500 gallon tanks or larger. Don’t forget to put your tank within 20-30 feet from your drive and away from your well/septic tank. Fuel truck drivers here don’t like to park/drive on any grassy areas to be sure they don’t put truck weight on water lines, septic tanks, or septic drain fields.
Definitely use a vented structure. Congrats on your purchase. This may be very helpful. https://sciarium.com/file/432052/
Propane tanks are only filed to 80% to allow for expansion
I have a 1,000gal tank, the propane delivery will only fill it to 80%
Not sure this is a law, but several different companies do this.
Another consideration, the larger tank will require heaver trucks for delivery.My last delivery was from a 5,000 tank with 6 wheels three axiels, something to consider for your access road.
Forest Service paints some propane tanks light green (same as the older pickup color). No legal barrier to painting your own tank. If you put a sun blocking roof over it paint it any color you choose. In remote areas might be a good ideal to build a SOLID block wall on two or three sides (the sides facing away from building). An underground tank solves all the problems if the propane company can navigate your road to be able to refill it. I have a 1000 gallon underground tank that services my 22KW Cummins 1800rpm Generator that normally uses Natural Gas. Tank sizes range from 250 gallons up to 1500 gallons with the sweet spot for a cabin either a 325 gallon or a 500 version. You can legally trailer a 250 gallon tank (or 1000# of propane) on a suitable trailer. Unless you have a tractor with forks you probably would want to have a dedicated trailer and park it next to the dwelling in the abovementioned protective wall (a commercial propane tank trailer is much too expensive). A gallon of liquid propane weighs 4.11 #. Years ago I got all excited about Yurts (wife was less than enthused). A wood stove fits in the middle so all the yurt is heated more or less equally.
There are insulated versions and the round size survives wind that will destroy tents. Most of the local shed builders will make you prefab sections (say, 8×16 x 2 or 4 units) and deliver them to your platform or slab with 4×4 trucks. They should even have catalogs to look at. Remember if you do not have a foundation you don’t have to pay property tax on your building (a concrete slab would be a foundation only if the building is attached to it). Make sure you have at least one parking spot on the slab (the shed guys can make you a carport to attach to the shed so you do not have attach it to the slab.
Need to check your own state and local laws about what is a taxable structure. In NH there is a very small structure tax loophole I suppose for chicken houses and such.
The foundation tax rule needs to be checked. A skiddable structure on treated timbers was ruled a non-taxable structure recently here. Old style barns built on treated timbers have been taxed.
The town was allowed by the Judge to have the owner actually skid it before witnesses to show it wasn’t a permeant structure and thus taxable.
And tank in excess of 110 gallons requires not only a CDL but Hazmat and Tanker endorsements, insurance on public roads might also be a issue. I have suggested #100 tanks set in series to be a easily workable compromise. A small crane on side of pick up lifts into bed,take to get filled and return with crane. Complete opsec,no road building for large delivery vehicle and if less than #1000 no license problem. Passed a mobile home park and multiple tanks next to older abandoned units probably cheap.
There is a company here in Tx that delivers the tanks painted tan, like desert camo tan. Mine is silver, and in the shade of a tree. They definitely vent when being filled, I just watched the process a couple of days ago. Any surround structure needs to still be easy for the delivery driver to access the tank and fill it.
I’ve had drivers move a simple screen made from lattice away from the tank.
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In Texas anyone can install and bury the line from the tank to the house. They recommend simple copper tubing, which shocked me. There is also a PEX like tubing but that will need special, non-melty transitional material at each above ground end. You don’t want a small fire to melt your gas line…
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I had the electricians that were there to underground my main service from the pole to the house also do the short trench from my tank to the house. I had them tack on $150 to the electrical work. Their mini-excavator made short work of the digging. I filled it back in later. I didn’t drop in a cat cable or empty conduit, as I wasn’t aware of the monitoring hardware at the time. Now I wish I had. It’s almost always worth it to throw an extra cable in the trench, or an empty conduit.
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If you want stealthy, get a home heating oil tank and fill it with diesel. Use the diesel for heat and the gennie. You can refill the liquid tank on your own, a little at a time. My buddy buried a tank under his garage…
nick
I am in upstate South Carolina also. My tank is buried as well. I dearly love having propane. After it is delivered, it is mine. Natural gas is distributed by pipelines here .
They can be cut off anytime. I use it for hot water heating, cook top for the stove, and on unusual cold morning, I use the gas logs in the fireplace for a short time.
My electric power was off for 12 days from the hurricane last fall. We could cook and take hot showers. I don’t remember the tank size. I fill it in the spring before canning season and in the fall before the cool weather arrives.
If it were mine to do i would do a half and half. Dig a slit trench 3/4 the depth of the tank with #2 stone as base drained into a plastic tile the length of the tank to keep the water away and something solid on the top half to protect from prying eyes and rifle fire or wild fire.
There’s a propane tank outside of Belfry, MT painted to look like a watermelon. I regularly smile as I drive by.
There is the thought that you can stand out by not standing out. That is, everyone has a propane tank; they are the single biggest source of heating in much of Montana according to a map I saw yesterday. Not having one makes you different. Different makes you noticeable.
An alternative paint scheme is to paint it look like an old rusted tank. You get the benefits of white paint while looking like nothing anyone would want to bother with. Just a thought.
You can buy camouflage netting in a wide variety of sizes and patterns either online or at surplus locations or gun shows. It provides concealment and does not obstruct airflow.
This seems like a good application for camo netting. The camo netting canopy will also help create shade to keep your tank cool in the sun.
Short term, how about a simple bit of camo netting? It will make it a lot harder to see but not make it difficult to access. After awhile (research) find a more realistic long term answer. Just spit balling…
burying the tank is safer but you want to be sure that you have protected it and that you have the cathodic protection system properly installed- these use magnesium anodes.
Good luck!
There are companies that sell propane tank wraps. You can use their stock images or upload your own custom design. Or just paint it. Our local company’s tanks are a medium tone green.
sandbag it. bullet proof n camo too.
I run two 500 # tanks in series, they couldn’t fit a 1000# in my space. I have railroad ties 3/4 the way up and a wall on one side. Yes it is painted white. I love propane, I buy it cheap in the summer and never use more than 500 # all year. Great when the electricity is out like Charles mentioned. We also use a propane water heater (on demand) saved us a bunch over the years and no more heavy water heaters! I think the camo netting, like many mentioned is a good idea in ‘bad times’.
If everything works as planned, propane tanks that blow, blow upward through the connections, not the tank itself. Don’t take my word as gospel – my advice is worth what you paid for it – but I worked a VFD for a number of years and even when surrounded by flames, I’ve only observed tanks blowing upward. A spectacular site that you don’t want to be near, even in full bunker gear, but they all blow upwards, not sideways. YMMV of course.
I deliver propane as a retirement gig. Burying the tank is the most inconspicuous way to go. A flat lid is all that shows. Some of my customers even hide that with shrubs or a large fake rock. (Don’t use a rose bush unless you want a pissed off driver making your delivery!) Buy a 1000 gallon tank. Access is key. If there is the slightest hint of ice, thick mud, snow cover or anything else that looks wrong I am under strict orders to skip it. The boss isn’t risking his $200k+ truck for a $500 delivery. Access is the customers responsibility. Bonus points if it can be accessed from the road, as you’ll pretty much always get your delivery. I can go 200’ with the hose ( that may not be true for all trucks, our oil truck hoses are 150’) so if I can get to it I will even if I have to park on the road at a house where I normally go in the driveway. My boss sells home heating oil too (that’s actually his main gig), he said he would go with propane every time over oil now. Also regarding the 80% comment, we have to leave room for expansion. Some underground tanks will go to 90% but we go off what the bleeder valve is emitting, not the gauge. Once it goes from emitting vapor to liquid we stop.
One of your winter projects should be becoming a certified Gastite installer and figuring out who will sell it to you (or your shell company). It was a three hour class when I did it for the corrugated stainless steel tubing. You’re going to want training on the direct burial polyethylene tubing too.
Gensco used to be pretty liberal about who they let take the training they hosted but they ostensibly only sell to contractors.
https://www.gastite.com/us/products/underground.html
My grandmother’s were painted silver. Saw a (somewhat paranoid) prepper YouTube about camouflaging your propane supply. In addition to ground level observation, it suggested protecting from overhead (aircraft or drones) and also thermal. So that means burying (discussed above) or maybe a three sided, roofed structure. Keeps the sun off it, allows ventilation and reduces observation. Build it out of old pallets, they are free, unused scraps become kindling/firewood.
We have a place in Granite County. We only use propane for cooking, so 20 lb tanks are all we need, so can’t help with that.
I’ll pass on an unrelated tip a neighbor gave us – put in a small solar system first. We, like most people, ignored that and just used a generator for construction. That’s a PITA – you either let the generator run all day (noise, $$), or you are starting it all the time to make that one cut with the chopsaw.
We suffered through that for a couple of years (construction season is short at 6000 ft) and finally got a cheap 3000W inverter (Amazon resale), LiPo battery, solar controller and 300W panel. Maybe $1000 all told. When we were done I added a decent (more efficient) 1000W inverter because you don’t need 3000W most of the time and the rest became our cabin solar system.
When you start construction and need a second set of hands for the big parts feel free to ask.
Definitely bury it, following the propane supplier’s guidelines.
Better for your opsec, less temperature fluctuations, less UGLY.
Congrats on your progress!
you’ll have some heavy equipment on site – extra dirt to relocate – bunker in the tank – not only take away the ugly but some safety as well …..
Bury it. Flame and fire (the projectile kind) resistant.
Another option would be to just berm up dirt around the tanks, so at eye level they are mostly hidden. Or build a framework out of lattice panels.
My ideal is to railroad ties on three sides and then berm up along the railroad ties. Provides concealment and some protection while still maintaining access and airflow.
Landscaping ties would not be a bad way to go. I have extensive experience with doing railroad tie/landscaping tie walls; it’s not a bad way to go and will likely outlast you.
The walls I built decades ago are still around. We used galvanized spikes to pin them together just enough to hold them steady while we used a seriously kick-ass drill with an extended auger bit to drill holes through the layers of ties and then we pounded long sections of re-bar into them to pin it all together. Had a tractor trail load of steel strapped railroad ties roll down off a flatbed, roll down a hill, catch a little air and land squarely on a section of wall we were working on. Thing did not even budge.
Gabion walls are a good option.
The problem with a landscape feature is someone might wonder what’s there – oh, look! A propane pig!
Also, not fire resistant. When we had the big fires around the flat head 2 years (?) ago, buried tanks didn’t bleve: the surface tanks did.
We bought and had installed a 1000 gallon below ground tank. Our LP guys call it an “880” as they fill to 88%. Out of sight, all that is visible is a small green painted dome over the extended ports. Only issue we’ve had with it was not shoveling the snow out to get to the cover once when the truck came to refill it. Now if there is snow on the ground, they call before coming out. Planted some low shrubs around the area and no one knows it’s there.
Lot of good advice here, but I think you’re overthinking it. What exactly are you trying to accomplish by hiding your propane tank. You only need to make sure it’s easy access for your delivery guy. A lot of more important things to focus on before spring. The people you need to be concerned about already know who you are and where you are.
My concerns are that I want something to protect it from the occasional stray bullet…whether thats from a careless hunting season or a simmering apocalypse. And I’d like it to be somewhat blended into the environment because the less people that know its there, the better. Perhaps the locals will know, but if it isnt blended in then the locals AND everybody else knows its there.
remember that it’s always cheaper to do it right the first time than having to go back and redo it a second time.
i would have the supplier install the tank and piping. most suppliers won’t fill a tank for a structure unless its hooked up to an appliance and tested. don’t be tempted to do it yourself. i have been a licensed master plumber for 30 yrs and LP is the most dangerous stuff i have ever worked with.
When I was in South Asia in the early 1990’s most apartments and homes were not plumbed for gas. Since they did not need hot water or heating, there was not much of a point to doing the plumbing. However, everyone cooked using gas and all the kitchens that appeared completely modern ran on barbecue bombs. It was just how things were done and seemed to work pretty well. Also, they are marvelously man-portable and in a pinch can be purchased atmost filling station convenience stores.
My propane guy coats his tanks with aluminum paint to reduce heat and just generally protect the metal.
I’d go with a revetment: walled on three sides with the open side facing opposite the structure. You could put a metal roof over it as sunshade/recon cover and then fit gutters to the roof and make it part of your rainwater catchment system.
I’m certified as HAZ-MAT Technician and have handled a fair number of propane tank fires, but have never had an explosion that was the result of a tank issue. You really have to work at it to blow up a tank. The road flare and tank scenario (a la Dawn Of The Dead) doesn’t seem promising based on my experience. I’ve put .50BMG APIT through fully loaded barbecue bombs and never gotten the big bang. What I HAVE gotten is perforated tank that spews a low to the ground cloud of gray propane that, when ignited by subsequent rounds, goes boom a la a FAE. The only true propane explosions I ever responded to were homes where some dingleberry would jury rig a garden hose to pipe gas into their house for a heater or stove or some such and it would leak, spark and ka-boom.
My propane guy is an LMI who enjoys a good game of “what if…”; send me your questions for him.
NurseDaddy
Before painting you might check with your local propane dealer. Mine would not fill self painted tanks. Said it could hide problem areas that would condemn the tank. For now I would just buy the 100 lb tanks X 5. That should last you a year of heating food or water along with limited heating (depending on how cold you can tolerate). Get a good two wheel dolly with big tires. If I remember the 100lb tanks are the largest a person can transport on roads (fed rule?). Having your own just helps opsec for your location. Big trucks also make driveway maintenance more likely.
Dude,
Bury it.
It’s concealed.
It’s ballistically protected.
What more do you want?
Guess I’ll throw my hat in the ring on this issue. My propane journey mirrors what you are contemplating. As a fuel source propane is the top of the line for rural homes. Propane dose not deteriorate as does gasoline or diesel. It will sit in your tank for years. What works for me is two 1000 gallon tanks. That is enough fuel to last over a year. That amount gets me to August when demand is low and the price is also low. I purchased my tanks. Up front cost is high but monthly rental fees can become more expensive. I to was concerned about two big white tanks sitting out in the open for all to see. So I bought tanks that were able to be buried. Beside the visibility issue. Buried tanks can be filled to 90% vice above ground tanks only get to 80%.I dug the holes myself and had the propane company deliver and set the tanks. They had a size requirement for the holes with sand in the bottom. They wanted to be the ones to sell the tanks and set them up. That way they had no reservation (read liability) servicing the tanks. Buried tanks are special. They are painted green for ground contact and they use a sacrificial anode bag. Inspection happens once every ten years. The company has some magical way to do that. My tanks were tested for the first time last year with no problems. The delivery guys appreciate easy access. The less hose they have to drag out the better. Having my two tanks means that they don’t have to tackle my road in winter with their big tanker truck. You apparently have a crappy driveway too. On the money side the company gave me a price drop on the first fill. I also get an industrial rate for the once yearly fill. Anything over 700 gallons applies I also get a lower price by paying in full within ten days in cash (check). My tanks are connected in parallel not series. One tank is on and the other is off. I run the open tank down to about 15% then close it. I open the second tank for use and it still contains a lot of propane come August. I only have to fill one tank and top off the other. I use about 1100 gallons a year. Anyway that’s my experience with propane. I look forward to reading about your upcoming trials. I went through the same things you will be doing. With sympathy Bill.
Don’t bury it. Please don’t bury it. I’ve had to deal with more leaking underground propane tanks in the last six years than I can count. One that turned out to only be “holding” propane because they bedded it in clay which had mostly sealed the multiple holes. If you do bury it, take the recommended number of anode bags and triple it. If two, make it six – two off each end, last two off the center riser.
I strongly support the berm. Give yourself enough room to easily walk around the tank with a cane or crutch to inspect it and touch up any rust spots with rust reformer primer & paint.
And speaking of paint, feel free to paint it anything but black. We’ve got some that are dark green, others navy blue, and a lot that have murals and random paint schemes. Most rental ones are going to be white or another light color for three reasons – reflection, visibility against most backgrounds, and ease of spotting rust early.
For the gas line, I like the Continental and Perfection poly tubing, but you need to be careful in ground that freezes – had a couple where they didn’t bury it enough, and when the ground froze it crushed part of the pipe. If I can I like running it in 2″ electrical conduit, cap the ends with a hole in the cap to feed it through, and seal the end of the conduit and the cap with 100% silicone and stainless steel or brass wool to keep out water and pests.
Bury it !!
II THINK ONE SMALL(ER) TANK ON PROPERTY TO START OUT THEN ONCE YOU GATHER ALL YOUR INFO, INPUT AND ADVICE YOU BURY OR BERM 2 BIG ONES, congrats on the property purchase. been following you a LONG time.
THANK YOU FOR ALL THE GREAT INFO I EVEN STARTED A SITE FOR MY OWN THOUGH YOU ARE A MUCH BETTER WRITER AND ARTICULATE GREAT INFO, THOUGHTS AND GEAR,
GUNGE
Try and plumb your tank where you can have a liquid outlet , so you can fill small tanks for use elsewhere. Also , do not put your tank above your house. Propane will flow downhill. In very cold weather , it will not vaporize , it will go to the lowest spot.
Check out MT guidelines on buried tanks… they can be open to inspection??? And the anode bags are a must regardless of .gov rules
Berm baby berm – you’ll have plenty of rocks build a fence wrap and fill with rock / dirt…hth
UP Propane’s tanks are dark green:
https://www.uppropane.com/tank/info
A Screening structure is fine, and safest if there’s an air gap at the bottom, as you suggested.
Good luck buying a tank. When I moved to my house, I couldn’t find anyone local who would sell me one. I got stuck leasing (the teaser lease rates are very low, like $50 per year, but then the per-gallon propane cost is higher).
Also: Your propane usage may be lower than you expect. I thought I would use 250 gallons of propane a year just for the water heater (that’s what the DOE sticker said). Actual usage for me as a single person is more like 100 galllons.
Fam of 4, 1995 house (2700 sqft) up the ‘root. Use propane for heat and hot water, buy on contract @ 1000g/year, haven’t used more than that in 25 years. Been using 406 as my supplier since they started; total recommendation. See if they deliver to your new area.
If your location is extremely cold, then you you might need to fill less than 80%. Liquid propane does not vaporize as well at extreme low temperatures so filling less provides more surface area above the liquid in the tank. There are liquid withdrawal systems as an alternative for those situations, but they add a layer of cost and complexity. I used to run mountain top microwave radio sites across the western US, including Montana. They all used propane generators for backup power. Usually two 500 or two 1000 gallon tanks. One tank was usually on and one tank off in case a leak developed in the line to the building. Not good to lose all your propane mid-winter when a delivery truck cannot make it.