TL;DR = I like it enough to make an offer, I dont like it enough to make it a very good offer.
There were indeed water sources on the property. Two swampy/muddy creeks. One was just black stagnant water and mud in this August weather, the other had a tiny rivulet of flowing water. But thats in the middle of August…I’d imagine that in the spring its more substantial. Interestingly, there was a block poly pipe running along the ground along the length of the creek. It ran from the state land side of the fence and through the subject property. Not sure what that was about but it seems to suggest that theres an upstream water distribution point of some kind. Wonder if I could just tap into it with a T-joint or something.
And, there was indeed, a fairly decent flat spot to build. You crested this rather steep road and at the bottom was a nice little circular area that would seem to lend itself to a small cabin. Major drawback – the water sources, such as they are, were all the way at the other end of the property 440 yards away. Thats a quarter-mile for those of you keeping track.
The roads to get up there were about what I expected. There’s no way youre getting in there in winter without either a snowmobile, snow-specific four-wheeler, a horse, or snow chains and some cajones of steel. That isnt necessarily a deal breaker. The roads could accommodate trucks that were designed for such roads. I saw a forest-fire-fighting tanker trunk maneuvering the roads with aplomb. I suspect a small-ish well drilling rig could get in there. I’d rather lean towards having a well in there.
It has…possibilities. The price is somewhat within the range I was looking for but there’s going to be a degree of terraforming necessary….trees removed, some minor roadwork, etc.
I was thinking of offering 20% below ask, cash, and go as high as %10 below ask. I think I’ll just offer 20% below ask and if it happens it happens, and if not…the hunt continues.
ask some legal eagle about that pipe. could be something you don’t want any parts of.
Someone with a grow operation?
You may not be far off. Out here, it’s *likely* running to a stock tank, but…
Water rights get tangled out west, always a good thing to look intoz
you want to get a well driller up there for a survey, witch it for water. plus that guy will know about the water in the area. no water, no deal.
For what it’s worth, 10% is considered a non-offensive offer. So maybe sort of stick to your guns on the 20% less offer and patiently let them sweat for a week if they fail to accept. Just helped a relative buy a property last week and that approach worked. And this was a property that had a home and septic, city water and gas plus more. Stoic patience may be your friend here.
I’ve learned that it also helps if you are 110% willing to walk away from the deal and not look back. Sellers can kinda sense when someone says “pass” because theyre using it as a bargaining tactic vs “pass” because they really have no intention of compromising.
A tactic that works well in all sorts of negotiations – including auto purchases.
Back in the last century I was going to buy a new SUV – either a Ford Bronco (the big one) or a Blazer/Yukon.
Went to the Ford dealer, they tried to screw me. Went across the street to the GMC dealer and drove a Yukon home. Essentially the same price.
About a week later, I got a call from the Ford salesman, asking when I was coming in to sign the paperwork. I asked him to get his sales manager on the line, when he was I told him that I bought a Yukon that day from the place across the street – because they didn’t try to screw me.
They didn’t get it.
How deep would you need to drill to hit good water at $x per foot plus travel time if it’s way off from his shop
A local well driller can give you a good estimate and should know the water flows and depth for the propertyi
I agree don’t touch the pipe
If the black pipe is a property easement then someone has the right to access it 24/7/365 for inspection or repair or replacement without your permission.
What he said. You need to know who put that pipe there, why did the put it there, and what’s it for.
Black bears like to chew on that type of black plastic pipe. They sell a hole punch to put emitters in plastic pipe that look just like teeth marks. The pipe could be empty, clogged or 15 years old and not.in use. Sometimes worth it to follow the pipe to both ends. And a bar of soap near the inlet is always a subtle form of.protest.
Following. If the property is listed on the market, they “want it sold”. If it has been on the market for >> ANY<< length of time, and/or has been on and off listed a couple or few times over the years and not sold it is a dog of some sort. Either location and features issues or obstinate sellers that won't budge from an excessive price. These are data points for your research. If they are out of state owners and have not developed or used the property, their plans for doing so probably fell through for any reason (it may be an estate liquidation and the new owners need out of it, research this area) or they are just speculators profit seeking on an asset class. You are not a timber company just wanting the land to grow wood on, you have to develop it to a certain degree to make it useful to your needs or goals. Those costs are a detraction from whatever price they think that land value should be, not an attribute to justify some price structure just because a realtor advised them the going rate for such land or area is X blank amount of money per square foot under current market conditions. You making an offer for that land should not be a guarantee of profit on the sale, it is only icing on a cake for them if that occurs. You are taking the land off of their hands or books, so they can move on elsewhere and make some recapitalization of funds on that asset holdings. Offer 25 or 33% below their price asking point, if you feel there is maneuvering room in negotiations. You need that amount of money off the price for your own developing budget. They can counter offer up a bit more from your lowball offer, (doubtful that they have multiple offers or it is super hot listing in a primo area) but that may be near where your targeted budget limit is anyway. Play hardball, this is about survivalism after all is said and done. Stay frosty and happy hunting.
Did I understand that the flat area was at the bottom of a hill? As in rain or snow melt will flood your house.
Bottom of a hill meadow can be a death cold spot- cold air from surrounding area settles there and becomes significantly colder than nearby. So cold nothing but grass lives
The size of lot is not too large to control maintenance but I wonder about wildfire threat. Does there appear to be any evidence of past burns and if so, were they allowed to burn themselves out ? That would definitely make me consider high fire resistant structure. A dome would blend in with the trees nicely.
Don’t get too hung up about water. My BOL doesn’t have any flowing groundwater either, but you always have rain. Read https://survivalblog.com/2019/06/07/gravity-fed-rainwater-system-tractorguy/
Tractorguy
Another tactic is to use competing real estate companies to get their pros and cons. ‘Hey, I’m looking at property in this area, do you have any suggestions and what do you think of this property?’ They can give you the behind-the-scenes viewpoint.
Might want to do a chemical check of the water flowing thru the creeks. Also might want to check what is flowing thru the pipe. Small hole drilled then sealed up.
That may not end well.
Have you done a search of the property history – titles, tax assessments, easements, leases, etc?
I’ve seen some in the past that take away control of a property and the owners (and therefore the listing agent) either don’t know about them or think they are no big deal.
That water pipe has me worried – either there is an easement for it, giving someone else some kind of access, or it’s there illegally and someone has had access, and will most likely continue to use that access.
I’ve heard a number of stories along the lines of “my family has hunted that property for generations and we WILL keep hunting it”.
Jonathan
might be a good idea to add mineral rights to the list of things to check into
I’d definitely, but carefully, walk that pipe upstream onto the state land to find its’ source. Probably be worth walking it the other way as well as long as there are no fences barring it.
CHECK, take the walk both ways……..
This is something that a drone would be perfect for, without having to go for a hike.
I have my water for my cabin supply ed down a creek that is from a bold spring by 3/4” pipe. Follow the pipe and you will have a answer. Also time is money. I’ve been working on my place for 25 years. Keep your eyes open for something turnkey!
“let the seller sweat it out” “33% below asking”. Wow.
The housing market in the area I unfortunately recently moved from was such that you weren’t getting a house unless you made an offer literally within hours of listing and offered (in one case) $50,000 more than asking. I finally gave up and moved out of state. It sucked.
20 acres is big enough. How deep do you need to dig before you hit granite? I would guess there is a mountain below the property. If it is 5-6 feet of top soil you have an easier job than if it is 3 feet.
Good luck. I’m sure the advice will be cheap.
I know it is hard if you got the buy bug, but you might be better off saving and buying in a year or two. The “Everything Bubble” is yet to burst. When it does, everything will be cheaper after. People should read Galbraith. Real estate, guns, gold, crypto, etc will all be cheaper, not just equities. People are forced to sell hard assets during economic troubles, which floods supply, which lowers prices. It happens over and over and the only thing we learn from history is that people do not learn from history.
Relax there chum. No bubbles bursting.
Herr Schicklgruber sez the new golden age has arrived. Best to get in line lest you end up on his enemies list.
On a more serious note I get what you are saying but what if the bubble doesn’t burst in a few years. Timing a market can be somewhat of a fools errand. At a certain point you buy what you need at a price you can stomach.
Drillyourownwell.Com had a lot of info on punching in your own well. Read some of the stories. You could probably go pretty deep if you got one of those power augers. I was going to do it for backup water but the local drillers and old timers tell me the oil field activity contaminated the ground water. So I used the stock tank at the bottom of the hill for backup water.