A couple of posts back I asked for opinions on food that was suitable for long-term storage but would be impervious (or at least highly resistant) to any issues from a freeze/thaw cycle. The premise was that you make it to your remote hideout which has been left unmanned and unheated for the last several months into the winter. What food you have stored there must be long-term, obviously, but it has to be of a kind that is not going to have a problem with being frozen and thawed and couple times over, and has to be packaged in a manner that is also conducive to surviving that sort of situation. The things people came up with in comments was interesting, and while technically they might have been correct they didn’t really grasp the nature of what I was asking. The two most suggested food items were pemmican and peanut butter. Thats great and all, but imagine the scenario that would unfold: you make it to your hideyhole after hours of driving, ditching your vehicle, hiking in the snow for another hour and arriving soaking wet and cold….but alive. You change clothes from the bin of stored clothing you kept on hand for just such an occasion, fire up the small woodstove to keep you warm, and break into your stored food supply for the next few days. You scarf down some pemmican and peanut butter, feel the energy return to your tired frame, and after making sure your gear is secured, you hit the rack for a some sleep. Next day. Whats for breakfast? Pemmican and peanut butter. Whats for lunch? Pemmican and peanut butter. Whats for dinner? Pemmican and peanut butter.
You’re absolutely right, I asked for foods that were long-term and could be stored through freeze/thaw cycles without unacceptable damage. What I should have said, it seems, is “what sort of menu could you put together with foods that were long-term and could be stored through freeze/thaw cycles without unacceptable damage”. Let me give an example:
Breakfast: Instant oatmeal, dehydrated eggs, dehydrated hash browns, instant coffee, orange drink, pancakes from mix, etc.
Thats really more along the lines of what I was thinking when I asked that question.
We stock Mountain House freeze dried variety packs and #10 cans (along with fruit, and breakfast scrambles) and have a feeling we will be dipping into them soon.
We try and catch them on sale because only suckers pay full retail.
https://www.costco.com/p/-/nutrient-freeze-dried-fruit-variety-6-count-134-total-servings/4000425881?langId=-1
Freeze dried of all kinds, meats, carrots, nearly anything can be done that way. Supply of cerials in mylar bags also. Just a start.
I’ll try not to repeat too much. We stock the (ski in) cabin in fall (when we can drive in) with all the food we’ll use when we ski in in winter.
Breakfast: Oatmeal (we have some instant but mostly cook regular oats with dates, nuts, dried blueberries (costco), etc). ‘Nido’ instant milk. Granola (home made for us, but storebought works if you like it, raisans, dried cherries (costco). When we want eggs ‘OvaEasy’ is better than most dried eggs. Canned ham chunks for omelettes, canned (steel can) salsa, mushrooms, olives. We cut up cheddar into one-trip sized hunks and wax. Sometimes we’ll pack in a couple sticks of butter, if it runs out canned butter. In winter the open can will keep until spring. Pancakes sometimes. Canned hash, the dehydrated has brown potatoes that come in the little milk cartons (costco again). Costco Biscotti.
Lunch: PB & Graham crackers. Don’t overdo the Grahams, they only keep a year or so before going rancid. Sardines/oysters/liverwurst/whatever and whatever crackers you like. Grilled cheese and tomato soup (bread stored in the Montana mountains in fall will keep til spring; we like the foil boxed tomato soup better than canned; it survives freezing). Oyster soup (dehydrated or canned carrots, onions, Nido milk, canned oysters). Etc, etc, etc – this is what suits us, but a heckuva lot of ordinary grocery stuff survives fine.Pringles or other chips.
Dinner: Boxed macaroni (costco … drink!), with canned chicken or salmon. One of the few freeze dried things we do is a #10 can of peas (winco) for a little color. Pasta (I like tortellini but whatever) w/ canned sauce. Parmesan. We don’t do a lot of them but canned chili, soups, yadda. Fruit, canned or the little lunch packs. Dried fruit. We joke about the juice from the dried mangoes running down our chin.The grocery has boxes of ‘noodle-roni-whatever’ – boxes with pasta and a sauce. Instant mashed potatoes. Sometimes we’ll mix in canned fish and veggies to make a meal (this might be something only we like).
Dessert: cookies, chocolate, etc. We have a camp oven and will bake brownies. M&M’s, etc, etc. Boxed wine and booze for a nightcap if you partake.
I’ll stop running on. When you wander down the supermarket/costco aisle there is a ton of stuff that works.
FWIW: one issue we didn’t see coming: You get to the cabin. It’s 20 degrees inside, 0 outside. You fire up the stove, have dinner, and go to bed. Your hot steamy breath is rising and condensing on the cold soaked cans you densely packed on an upper shelf. They take quite a while to warm up/dry out, esp if densely packed. Our first winter the cans at the back got soggy enough often enough they started to rust. The solution was to move most of the cans to near the floor, and not dense pack the ones on the upper shelves. Use the upper shelves for things that won’t rust.
On ship at sea( salt water is most corrosive environment imaginable). Labels get removed, sharpie to identify contents and can coated with varnish to seal. Can will last years as long as varnish is unbroken. Weeks if varnish chips. Anything packed in oil should have no problem with water freeze/thaw cycles ( tuna/ olives/ dried tomatoes,etc)
Whatever you get, be careful to store it in rodent-proof containers. I had some Mountain House kits sealed in their square buckets, stored in an outbuilding….and rodents got through the plastic buckets and plastic/foil bags and ate it…..
I was not impressed.
I now keep the food in steel containers with tight fitting lids. Galvanized trash cans or steel barrels locking tops (bolt or lever).
Another option is one of the steel garage cabinets, like 36x18x72 inches from Lowes or Home Depot. Easy access to everything. Sometimes they have a couple of holes you need to pop-rivet a patch over. Amazon has gallon glass jars with metal lids for oatmeal, granola, etc.
If you don’t want to pack out your trash over the winter you want a steel 55 gal drum or one of the construction Job-Box things to store it in. We tried a galvanized trash can with ‘bear proof’ straps per some town in Colorado’s design, and the bear just bounced it around until he got in. Bear teeth can go through a galvanized can.
All good ideas!
55 gallon burn barrel for everything but plastic. A 10.00×20 steel semi Budd rim makes a perfect fire ring and can be sourced free or close
Youtube- montana mid valley farm- building a root cellar. I mainly picked this one because its montana. Its my understanding that a properly built root cellar will remain above freezing. Might be worth exploring down the road as it might allow storage of cans and jars. I’ve seen a root cellar/ tornado shelter extending out from the basement and an underground root cellar away from the house. Both parties claimed the ability to store home canning through winter.
Honey and maple syrup are forever foods that can be sparingly applied to bland foods like hash browns and biscuits to make them more palatable. I can’t stand powdered milk, but I can choke it down if I add chocolate milk powder. Tang and different kinds of tea is a nice break from just coffee and water everyday too. I was never a tea drinker until I discovered doubling up on the tea bag makes it worthwhile as a beverage. Of course it would be terrible to not have enough salt and pepper (get the whole peppercorn for long-term freshness) and other dried spices you use.
Nido milk is so very close enough to real that I can drink it, and I hate powdered milk. I also have a weekly dairy delivery of minimally processed non homogenized milk, so I think I have discriminating tastes. Plus, it actually has fat, whereas most dry milk is fat free.
https://www.costco.com/p/-/nestl-nido-fortificada-dry-whole-milk-485-lbs/100439217
The effort to dig a concealed cellar and the rodent proof steel containers you can store canned foods (SPAM) and EVEN BETTER An IBC tote full of Water.
Making it require acute observation that there is a hatch and tools to get to it is the best you can do to keep unwanted visitors from being there eating your stuff when you hike in.
All that storable food isn’t going to be fun with only the canteen or three you carried in there.
A well drilled under the cabin would be outstanding.
3 days without water your dead or wish you were.
I’ve done the winter survival course in the military and melting snow is the most work you’ve ever done (chopping frozen branches for fire) for a canteen cup of water.
This would depend a lot on what kind of cooking implements that you would have at the cabin.
I would still only have the peanut butter, jam and crackers in the cabin itself. That’s for food now, no preparation required. Your main food should be cached 3 feet down, below the frost line, where you can keep canned goods as well as dry goods. Have a full sized shovel hidden away, and the same goes for your pans and plates.
Add into the equation: How can I use the massively expensive freeze drier I bought to help in this exercise.
dehydrated has more water content still than freeze dried and as such is more susceptible to freeze thaw cycles. that said, i know a guy that stored his overflow beans and rice etc in an open top trailer thru ten years of f/t cycles and when he checked they were just like new. no nitro, no mylar, just buckets. then again in y2k i lost a couple hundred pounds of rice to bugs stored inside. who knows?
Rice bought in 25 or 50 pound bags (and perhaps smaller) should be stashed in the deep freezer for a couple months to kill bugs that may be in the bags. Weevils and etc.. Yes, the rice processors fumigate. No, the fumigation may not be 100% effective, and the little crawlies breed like crazy and/or may recolonize during storage and/or shipping. Then package in one or two cup baggies and store in metal containers with close fitting lids. If you’re sure you won’t have a rodent problem, food grade plastic buckets will suffice.
Out of the box answer for long term food supply: native berries and trees. I found a native plant nursery near me, and planted nearly all of the native fruit trees they had. I don’t water them. I don’t fertilize them. I put them in the ground and that’s about it. Once they’re established, they will eventually multiply on their own. In your case, they would have no problems surviving the temperature changes.