WInter continues to do it’s thing here in western Montana.
Next house I live in will be far more heavily winterized than the one I live in now. Ideally, I’d like to build from scratch someday and while the concrete dome homes seem to have a lot to recommend to them, their unconventional appearance and space considerations (where do you put a straight sofa along a curved wall?) make them a tad undesirable.
On the other hand, I’m really fascinated by these. There’s a cutaway of a wall made with these things on display at the airport waiting area and 8″ of concrete makes an impression. Impervious to forest fires and most small arms fire as well. If I were going to drop a little cabin on a chunk o’ nowhere, this would be a good candidate for materials.
I wouldn’t mind getting to actually see a place made out of this stuff. Or even one of those concrete dome homes, come to think of it. Its one thing to want to live in a place that’s built like a bunker, but not everyone wants to live in a place that looks like a bunker. Certainly, I’d take either one of those over a converted conex container.
One of these days I’ll sell my wildly appreciated house, take all the equity, and get that little chunk of nowhere. Maybe live on top of a mountain somewhere like this guy. Or out in the desert like these guys.
But, a lot has to fall into place before that happens. Fun to think about, though.
I really like my concrete home, ~ 2100 ft, looks like a Spanish Hacienda (pretty plain with minimal windows in front, all the interesting features are in back out of sight. Warm in winter, cool in the summer, costs about $95 a month electricity wise, backup gas heating system costs about $25 a month, backup water pipe heating embedded in the walls and floors with a small mothballed boiler.
Poured concrete basement room, and large windows and french doors facing South in the rear to warm the place with sun in the winter and massive trees that shade it and keep it cool in the summer. Cheap too. Cost just over 150K. Easy to defend and could withstand a fair amount of auto cannon fire if it came to that. small caliber isn’t going to do poop to the walls
Windows have interior swingback shutters that can be easily reinforced with Kevlar plate to provide good resistance to SA fire and the most vulnerable approach to the house in the rear overlooks a mowed, level 10 acre field with clear fields of fire since the home is elevated on a mound overlooking it. Overall about all you can ask for in a small town suburban fortress. I highly recommend the type.
Best Regards
JDub – how long have you had the home? I’m just curious if the color of the logs fades significantly over time. Also, how do you clean it? It seems like a couple of goes with a pressure washer would start to wear away at the textured look. (I live in FL, where mildew can be a problem for the outside of a house)
Regardless of the answer, it seems like a worthy compromise. I’ve never seen these things before. They look like they’d be about as perfect as you could ask for from a preparedness standpoint. My wife wants a log home, and I’ve always said no for maintenance reasons. But they do look nice, and that would solve a lot of those problems…
I’ve owned it for going on 9 years or so. It’s not built of concrete logs, the walls were poured at a concrete company site into forms and then craned to the site and joined. The foundation and basement were poured on site on and in a prepared rammed earth mound built on a slope.
The walls were then covered with stucco overlaying a styrofoam and plastic web substrate. I’ve also added a metal roof underlayed by insulation. I use a cleaning solution and jetspray to clean the walls when needed. Overall, I’m very happy with it and wouldn’t trade for a regular construction for anything.
Best Regards
Tilt-up concrete, pre-cast, or poured forms would definitely be the way to go, if defense-ability was a big criteria. Those concrete “Ever-Logs” are probably a decent material for a small degree of fire-resistance, but as thin as it is, I doubt it would even stop most pistol caliber rounds.
Even a direct encounter with a forest fire would likely defeat the Ever-logs. I don’t think they’re designed to withstand sustained extreme heat–and the fire would just shatter and penetrate through the windows anyhow.
Peter,
Have you actually looked at the EverLogs website? The houses look like artisanal bunkers. The logs are solid concrete. Very thick. One of their selling points is fire resistance. Thick concrete easily defeats pistol caliber fire.
The home was built in the early 80’s by the owner of the cement company so he spared no expenses in the quality of the concrete. The exterior walls are ~ 10″ thick and the supporting interior walls are 8″ thick. I have no doubt that the place could withstand a major tornado structurally. Fire wise, no home fire is a good thing and I simply don’t know how the structure would withstand a major fire damage wise.
Best Regards
Saw an article in Fine Homebuilding RE: double-wall construction (double 2X12 headers & footers, caulked between, 2X4 exterior and interior studs with ~3.5″ between, spray-in closed cell in outer wall, mineral wool in inner wall). Had single hung windows (casements seal tightly) and ~1.0 ACH (author mentioned if customer had allowed casement windows (casements seal tightly) he could have done <.2 ACH). 2600 sq ft, <$30/mo for heating in the Rockies. Plywood ain't very projectile resistant, tho, so…I'm wondering if a wider than normal poured foundation wall would allow pre-cast decorative concrete panels as siding. Don't see why not.
I've long wondered about poured concrete exterior walls with the insulation on the outside, using the concrete as thermal mass. Don't see it done, so there must be a reason.
I'll have to research the concrete log thing. Also wondering about suitability of concrete tilt-up residential construction, and/or assembling pre-cast concrete panels.
I have ICF walls. 2″ foam inside, 8″ concrete in the middle, 8″ foam outside. Lots of steel in the concrete. It’s easy to heat, very tight, probably a gallon of fuel oil a day to heat at -40.
It’s easier and faster than framing for a small crew, and if you’re paying for labor, probably not way more expensive than framing. I, my wife, and two teen children built our two story, 2,400ft^2 house in 9 weeks, bare ground to roof on.
It’s way short of bullet proof. The UFC calls for two 12″ concrete walls to stop a .50, if I recall correctly. Windows are a problem for that, too. Think layers, and exterior walls and fences, if you want ballistic protection.
Most of the ‘dome’ structure’s appear to have storage compartments along the lower perimeter of the building to take advantage of the low ceiling otherwise offered. I’ve never seen the product ‘Everlog’ – reminds me of the concrete plank products made by James Hardie. These are not only a bit expensive but require drilled attachment holes, rather than nails to fasten them down. 50 year warranty.
But bullet resistant – I doublt it. The heavier products shown above have that over the planks. Very cool ideas. Amazing that in many locations, structures were built that have lasted CENTURIES, via our modern construction that last much less. Speed and convenience do have a final cost it seems.
You can do most anything with insulated concrete forms (ICF). Looks like a normal house on the exterior but it is a bunker underneath.
Look at this UFC: https://www.wbdg.org/ffc/dod/unified-facilities-criteria-ufc/ufc-4-023-07
Those logs may be a little less bullet proof than you think.
Back in 2000 I took the dome building course at the Monolithic Dome Institute in Italy Texas. Later I attended the building science program at our local college and helped build three award winning Habitat For Humanity houses.
The Monolithic Dome has it all over conventional construction. I think they’re butt ugly on the outside but beautiful on the inside. True, the exterior walls are curved but the partition walls are straight. There is an interesting feeling when you’re inside one; must be something in our DNA.
Anyway, check out their website and, if you get a chance, take their course; you’ll be impressed.
Cheers,
TommyJoe
Keep in mind that any kind of log system – concrete or wood – has thousands of feet of joints that must be sealed weather tight. I have a log house, and every time the temperature gets below zero, the joints start popping at random times. In the middle of the night, it sounds like a pistol going off.
I like the insulated concrete forms houses – when I get the right lotto ticket.
Hole in ground meet shipping container…
…meet structural collapse, flooding and disaster.
Putting a shipping container in a hole is a terrible idea.
I never said bury it completely and it would take some logistics but the point was things can done cheaper…not everyone is swimming in cash…a keltec can (may?) get the same job done as a Kimber…one is a little prettier…
Even partially-buried it is still a terrible idea. The sides are not designed to resist a heavy load — such as damp soil — and the bottom remains open, closed off with plywood rather than steel.
I wouldn’t rely on a Keltec to rust, let alone function reliably.
Picking cheap junk is all but guaranteeing failure when needed. That’s true of anything. There’s a reason mechanics don’t buy their tools from Harbor Freight, and it has nothing to do with impressing other snobbish mechanics. There’s a reason police and the DoD aren’t buying Keltecs.
Short of money? All the more reason to buy quality gear: you can’t afford to replace it when it fails. Forget the Keltec AND the Kimber and get a police trade-in Glock. Skip the boutique AR and buy a Ruger or S&W, or assemble your own from basic reputable parts (Aero Precision is a good place to start), and lay in a stockpile of $7 D&H GI-pattern magazines rather than this week’s greatest “innovative tier-1” plastic product.
We have discussed the possibility of building anew. The decision is that we will build a concrete home using insulated concrete forms. I have experience with this system, and am convinced that this is the best way to go, in our situation and from reading the tea leaves.
I like the idea of a concrete or masonry house, particularly one built into a hillside, but existing houses like that are rare here and house prices are low enough it isn’t worth new building unless you want something very exotic (though the way prices are moving, that may change eventually).
I am more concerned about the long term costs and use of the building than short term weapons resistance, but I am preparing more for system ‘hiccups’ and local emergencies than for everything falling apart.
Oh yes! I was really glad to see Harry’s back blogging. I didn’t know since he stopped last year. Thanks for the link.
Well, heres a thought. If you like the round houses and have difficulty with the void left by the straight sofa against the round wall, simply fill it with ammo and guns. Issue solved! What could be better, storage and close at hand. What’s the down side???
After all how many and how much is to many and to much…..
https://nexcembuild.com
My architect uncle turned me into these. Better than the foam ICF without the Big Mac container look.
I really wanted to go with Everlog when I built my cabin up the Blackfoot, but it was way to expensive. I really liked the product and tried to justify the cost, but it was going to run approximately $24,000 to $25,000 just to use the log type siding on a 1200 square foot cabin. To rich for my blood,……….but still a great product
Comandante: Don’t know how much you know about reinforced concrete, but it may be a subject you want to ‘get up to speed’ on for the future. Most conventional structural concrete is poured in forms, with steel rebar inside it. When the concrete gets ‘up to strenghth’ it is capable of amazing feats. When most people think of concrete subjected to fire, they think the stuff is indestructible. Not so. A flash fire inside a concrete structure might just gut it, but a fire with any “load” or with correspondingly high temps will damage reinforced concrete to the degree, that, it will have to be demolished. Ever see what happens when a vehicle parked under, say, an overpass burns? It may very well have to be torn down, and rebuilt. Concrete does not like Fire. Yeah people put HardiPlank siding on their homes, but it won’t take much abuse. Also, many think that structural steel (Red Iron) does o.k. in fire, Not…. It is very susceptible to fire damage.
That’s largely a function of the available fuel.
If you park a truckload of fuel inside your concrete structure and it burns, then yes you are going to have significant damage. But if you minimize the available fuel — and using concrete instead of nice dry pine framing is a massive step in that direction — then there’s much less chance of a fire capable of causing structural damage.
A co worker did a ICF house. It looks like a totally normal house (siding, etc) but will stop a .50 BMG.
It’s on his 80 acre ranch with a pond and the nicest non professional shooting range I’ve ever seen.
Read that book I referenced above. It takes a shocking thickness of concrete to stop a .50.
My local indoor range was built to allow indoor firing up to .50 from a Barrett rifle. You really don’t want to be in the adjacent lane when the Barrett goes off, but sure enough, the trap and walls stopped the round. Anyhow, I was there when they were constructing the range, and the amount of concrete that was poured would blow your mind. Like you said, a shocking thickness of concrete.
It only takes 12 inches of non-reinforced concrete to stop a .50 BMG bullet. Six inches if steel-reinforced. That’s per FM 5-103, “Survivability.”
If your attacker has an endless supply of ammo, and no one is shooting back and spoiling his efforts, then it’s possible to gnaw through any thickness of wall. But unless you’re facing off against an armored cavalry troop, your chances of facing someone with that sort of firepower are effectively nil.
Someone with a Barrett and some API? Possible — there are more than a few out there — but he’s not going to be casually turning concrete walls into Swiss cheese. Worry about the far more realistic ballistic threat: medium caliber rifles with possibly steel-cored bullets. A reasonably-thick concrete wall will easily withstand someone’s M91/30 Moisin or M1 Garand, let alone anything fired from an AR, AK or similar.
As far as steel core performance is concerned, unless it’s actual AP, I’m not impressed. Buddy had a ND in his home, .308/7.62 Chinese steel jacket and core. The cheap stuff that was imported in the late 80’s. (Very accurate stuff, BTW.) It exited an interior stud/wallboard wall in TWO pieces, blew through some light sheetmetal and then the exterior wall, and skipped off another wall and was stopped by a redwood fence that it dented. 9mm does MUCH better than this!
Likely due to the velocity, causing the bullet to deform/break-up on impact. Even water can do this — Mythbusters demonstrated this firing a .50 BMG rifle into a swimming pool — at greater ranges (and thus lower velocities) the bullets would have held together and penetrated much further rather than shattering on impact.
Paradoxically, high-velocity bullets will break-up rather than penetrate in comparison to lower-velocity loads (or the same bullet at extended ranges).
Sacrificial “armor” in the form of ceramic tiles can provide a similar effect: the bullet is deformed on impact and softer/weaker materials behind the tile can then slow-down and capture the bullet.
I’ve seen pics of poured or sprayed concrete dome houses. Looks like a great idea for areas (mid West and seashores) that periodically have high winds (hurricanes and tornadoes), as the wind would slide off and around the house, instead of slamming onto a regular house flat wall.
Been thinking more about this; IIRC, 5000 PSI concrete is waterproof, or at least requires no additional treatments to prevent water migration (in foundation use I think I’d still want external waterproofing because during construction it’s (relatively) cheap to do and mucho dinero if it has to be retrofitted).
I like the idea of factory-built wall panels – wood studs, glued & nailed plywood (not OSB) sheathing, factory installed windows, insulation, etc. It all gets done in a dry, well lighted environment with quality dry materials, jigs to ensure it’s assembled square with automated equipment to ensure precision joints, no missed steps or fasteners. Wrapped up to keep them dry and clean during transport, truck ’em in, crane ’em into place. Fast, with reliable bolted connections.
Pre-cast concrete is used a lot in shear walls – non-load bearing. So, make the foundation walls extra thick, the pre-made stud/sheathing walls bolt to the foundation leaving 6-8″ for a “ballistically sound” concrete facade, pinned to the foundation and ties to the walls and/or trusses. There are lots of colors, finishes, patterns, textures, etc. available for the pre-cast shear walls, so if you want 8″ of high-PSI bullet resistant reinforced concrete that looks like lap siding, (or a log home) you can get it, and – depending on roof materials – completely forest fire-proof (that will require some additional attention to eave venting, but it’s not rocket surgery). An inch or so of polyiso ridgid insulation between the concrete panel and sheathed wall adds a thermal break.
A lip on the inside of the foundation wall leaves 8-10″ for pre-cast concrete floors (same kind of post tensioned floor panels used in parking garages). More crane work, so it goes fast, provides a solid floor surface for any finished floor you might want, and very quiet floor-to-floor, plus high thermal mass.
If the stud walls are built with bracketry to retain the trusses, it’s “crane, set, bolt, done.” Roof sheathing is as normal construction, and the place is “dried in” and available for interior finishing in 3-4 days, and the construction materials aren’t sitting outside in the rain or getting dragged through the mud, joints are tighter, etc. If you want a fancier floor, “float” it with a thin self-leveling pour of fiberglas reinforced concrete, 2 hours to pour and spread, 3-5 to harden. Done. It can even be dies and stamped to resemble a stone floor.
There’s also nothing wrong with factory panelizing the interior partitions; heck, the crane’s already there, if the floor panels are cast with the anchors in place, it’s bolt them down with power tools, and a lot of the rough-in wiring can be done at the factory.
The only “dirty” site work is diggng the foundation and pouring the walls and basement slab, and once that’s done, drainage systems, backfilling and near final grade can be established before anyone else has to climb through the mud and try to build something.
I can’t see many reasons to not do it this way. Concrete is more expensive than a crew of Billy Bobs with their Skilsaws and air nailers, but the quality of controlled factory built is – I think – worth it, and the trucking and crane work is maybe 4-6 days to get it closed in. Time is money, after all.
My nearest neighbor built a sprayed-concrete dome into a dug-out hillside and then bermed it with the dirt. Its only vulnerability would be the concrete block front wall and of course windows. The dome started with a steel superstructure covered with mesh and burlap and SO MUCH REBAR that I still get an emotional reaction from a stick of rebar. Once it was structurally complete the thing barely needed heating on the coldest winter – but we should have done a lot more about ventilation because in summer it gets muggy as hell in there and we’ve found no way to cure that short of digging it up and cutting through the lower walls for air inlets. Live and learn – except that retrofitting to definitively correct that mistake is so far too daunting to bother with. There’s one underground air inlet for the seldom-used woodstove, and this year we’re fitting the stovepipe with a humidistat-controlled pipe fan in hope of keeping it pleasant during the summer.
In the present here-and-now, high humidity — and the subsequent mold issues — are a far greater risk than someone with a .50 cal rifle shooting through your walls.
Passive (ie, “I don’t need to do anything because I’m lazy and therefore I won’t”) measures trump dehumidifiers, fans, elaborate maintenance schedules… Your site needs to remain dry and habitable whether or not anyone visits for years.
There is one of these built along the river between huson and alberton on old hwy 14. Another between the tarkio exit and the louzo cutoff on frontage. They look pretty much like a regular Lincoln cabin but one can tell. Too cost prohibitive for me. I did a double 2×4 wall (8″ thick). 3′ of steel on the bottom and fire resistant siding, metal soffit and roof. Nice and warm and fire resistant. Still have to be fure wise but….