Friend Of The Blog ™, Tam, over at View From The Porch, has a post up about the ammo shortage and it’s depth.
I don’t know if Tam is old enough to remember the Great Primer Scare back during the Slick Willie administration, but it was, in some ways, a nice warm up for the present situation.
I have an 06 manufacturers FFL, so I get more than the normal advertisements from vendors. I also get advertisements directed at manufacturers, where you buy your brass and other components by the fibre drum. There is, indeed, a bit of scarcity running around.
Many folks feel that reloading is the answer to these ammo shortages, but thats like saying cooking your own hamburgers is the solution to no burgers at Wendy’s because of a beef shortage. If larger manufacturers can’t get the components to keep up with demand, neither will you. Usually.
I say ‘usually’ because, as an individual, you have more maneuverability than Remington or Speer. You can literally troll Gunbroker and pick up 100 cases here, 400 cases there, and another 250 cases from a garage sale down the street. And if you’re willing to expend a little sweat, you can almost always just find brass growing under feet at the range.
But, overall, if you shoot any of the ‘common’ stuff like 9mm, .223, .40, etc, you’re probably going to have a hard time finding it and when you do the prices may not be to your liking. If you reload, you’ll have a bit of an advantage because ammo is often snapped up before the components are since reloaders are outnumbered by non-reloaders.
Tam’s a smart cookie, and the nature of her profession is such that she has, no doubt, a stockpile that would suit her needs in virtually any crisis. But she’s also savvy enough to know that meat doesn’t come from a pink tray in the supermarket and .45 230 FMJ doesn’t grow on a tree in the stockroom at Bass Pro. Amateurs talk strategy, pros talk logistics.
Having been chicken-littling for the life of the blog, I’ve already gotten most of my ammo situation squared away. So much so that the only time I really buy large amounts of factory ammo anymore is when an uncommonly good deal turns up.
When will things get back to ‘normal’? Years, dude. If you don’t have the ammo you want right now then your biggest quandry is do you a) buy the ammo now at the inflated prices or b) risk waiting for prices to drop and availability to increase? If you choose plan A you’re gonna get the sandpaper joystick where the sun don’t shine…but you’ll have ammo. Plan B saves you money when you finally do buy, but that purchase might be two years down the road, if at all.
And then, there’s Plan C….have purchased all this crap years ago and it’s quietly sitting in ammo cans in a safe location just waiting for Der Tag. I’m a Plan C kinda guy.
“I don’t know if Tam is old enough to remember the Great Primer Scare back during the Slick Willie administration, but it was, in some ways, a nice warm up for the present situation.”
Oh, yes. I’ve been behind the counter for most of the scares from the passage of the AWB on forward.
We’ve been taking the middle road for the most part. We’re only shooting what we can find locally for decent prices while keeping the stockpile for reserve.
The harder part is that we’re also trying to figure out what fits the girlfriend best for a carry gun. Right now she’s shifting between a G43 (which she likes, hits decent with but we have capacity concerns) and her 1911 (easier to hit with, reliable after we found mags it likes but still capacity concerns plus more expensive ammo). She had a G26 but it’s a little big for her hands and due to medical conditions how it feels really matters when she’s having bad days medically.
When people whine that the can’t find ammo anywhere it’s hard not to laugh in their faces. If they’re looking locally they aren’t actively searching. By checking a couple places when we do our weekly shopping we’ve covered what we’re shooting for 9mm & 45. Online I can still find ammo of some flavor for most common calibers. If you’re being picky, too bad. If you piece(s) are picky for social ammo, time to try out some more options.
Steelheart
Ammoseek.com is a godsend in times like this.
I just got off the range a few hours ago. Today was fundamentals today and just having some fun. While shooting, I began to watch people leave the range very quickly. I took a water break and heard people saying they can only shoot 100rds because they do not have enough and can’t find any. 500 rounds later of 556 I was still there. Same with the old timer a few down from me, we just smiled and nodded.
The “great primer scare” was what prompted me to start stockpiling ammo and to branch out from the common calibres. Yes, I have firearms in .223/5.56, 7.62×51/7.62×39 and .45ACP but I also have .357/.38 and .22LR and a .50 Hawken flintlock. Before you laugh at the flintlock, consider that with its rifled barrel it’s accurate out past a hundred meters, I can make black powder and scrounge led from abandoned vehicles. So regardless of what happens, I’m still in business.
One thing to bear in mind is that most of/virtually all the good gunflints being manufactured these days are made in England (Tom Fuller’s successor, don’t recall his name) and in France. We do of course have our own native chert that works quite well, but there isn’t anyone producing lots of flints here in the US that I am aware of (there are a few knappers producing flints as a side to arrowheads and knives, I think), it isn’t available in all places (NC, for example, has none), and even if you can just pick it up locally knapping gunflints isn’t a task you can learn in an afternoon, I don’t think (haven’t tried it myself, but reading teh commenst of those that have suggests that there is a bit of learning curve.) All that to say, if you haven’t done so, laying in a good supply of flints would probably be a good idea, as resupply could get iffy in any kind of disruption to Atlantic trade.
While I wouldn’t want to get into a firefight armed with one, I concur that a muzzleloader is a perfectly serviceable tool for more prosaic purposes such as hunting or dealing with raccoons in the henhouse. Black powder, if kept dry, will not deteriorate due to age the way modern powders do, too.
Am air rifle is an even more useful tool for dealing with foraging and pest control. A former co-worker even killed a coyote with one. For larger creatures, there are large-bore air rifles that can be very effective, and casting bullets for them are no different than casting for a black powder rifle.
Do you have a specific recommendation for pump .177 air rifles?
I’ve been using cheap ($40) Chinese spring-piston air rifles that I bough back in the mid-90s. They are crude and ugly, but good enough to whack prairie dogs and rabbits out to 35 yards or so.
If I was in the market currently, I would look at some of the US or German branded guns — they’re all made in China — that are carried by Walmart and other stores. I’m not all that familiar with pump or pre-charged air guns. I prefer the spring-piston designs because they are very simple to maintain and repair, and are less affected by cold weather.
I have a few different air rifles, but my favorite one is my Remington. It’s pretty accurate with almost any quality pellet. It’s not a pump, but a break action that will produce 1000 fps with lead pellets and up to 1200 fps with alloy. The only thing that was disappointing was the cheap ass scope that came with it, which I replaced with a higher quality model. Hope this helps a bit……
https://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/remington-model-777sb-air-rifle-177-caliber?a=2186271
They don’t have .177, but these folks make some nice hunting quality air rifles. No connection to the company.
https://www.airforceairguns.com/The-Texan-by-AirForce-Airguns-s/118.htm
I have to note that if kept dry modern powders last very long. I have had some 296 and Unique that were over 20 years old and went off just fine when I loaded it into some .45 and .44 mag.
Gray Fox, your point about flints and where they are made is a good one and is why I learned to flint knap my own.
https://www.wikihow.com/Flintknap
As I tell folks over at Instapundit, it’s called PRE-paration, not post-partion.
For pistol ammo, someone was selling a combination of FMJ (800 rounds) and hydrashok (200 rounds) in .45 and ACP…I bought a couple of cases of each.
About a year and a half ago, I saw that Brownells was selling 5.56 and 7.62 ammo in steel drums….Hornady and Federal…who could go wrong? Frankly, I would have bought just the drums, to decorate my gun room…But, I bought them full, 7500 rounds of 7.62×51 and 12,500 rounds of 5.56×45. I figure I’m good for awhile.
I do reload, but only for the guns I want to be particularly accurate – 6..5 Creedmore, .338 Lap Mag, .50 BMG right now…I do have reloading equipment for everything I shoot (and a couple I don’t), and reloading components for them all.
Err, .45 ACP and 9mm
An 06 FFL? Do you actually manufacture ammo for sale, or does it have some benefit over an 03 CCR FFL? As I get closer to retirement I keep thinking of getting a CCR, but now you’ve got me wondering.
I reload in such quantities for myself and a few friends that I wanted the 06 to take advantage of pricing that is not offered otherwise.
The 03 is worth it just for the perks at places like Brownell’s and Century Arms. And it’d only $30 for 3 years. Also, keep in mind that C&R firearms are any firearms that are at least 50 years old, not just those on the ATF’s C&R list.
A type 06 only allows the manufacture of ammunition. If you’re interested in an FFL that allows for purchase of firearms, consider an 01 as a gunsmith rather than as a dealer. It is supposedly easier to get ATF approval in that case if you do not have a storefront.
I like your comment about the sandpapered joystick. And yeah, just for giggles I went on Gunbroker to check some auctions on .22LR ammo. A 500 rd brick of Remington Thunderbolt for $59.95. That’s pretty much the bottom of the barrel in .22 ammo. Great for plinking or pest control with a revolver or non semi rifle, but not really good for much else. I’m not criticizing that brand/model of ammo. It’s pretty damn near perfect for what it’s intended for. I’m just making the connection to your plans A & B. I bought tens of thousands of rounds of that very ammo at $14.95 or less per brick on line (if I got free shipping) and at a local sporting goods chain. These purchases were mostly to donate it to my rifle club’s youth training program…………………
And to think. Ben over at Classic Firearms was selling a case of five thousand rounds of 22LR for $126.99 per case in the fall of 2018 and up to the summer of 2019. And that was Remington Thunderbolt.
He hasn’t run any specials like that since. It was $12.99 per brick unless you bought the case lots.
Which is why timing for purchasing ammo is everything. Buy ammo when it’s cheap, and yes, stack it deep: When the politicians screw things up (which seems to happen on a 4-year cycle for some reason) I’ve got ammo to carry me over until things are back to normal.
I still have nine bricks of Thunderbolt stashed away in case someone needs them. The good stuff like Mini Mags, Yellow Jackets, Vipers and the like I’m keeping for myself. I also have a bunch of those Federal 325 rd bulk packs of those cheaper copper washed bullets. My Single Six loves those things for some reason. I lucked out years ago on a Gunbroker auction with mixed lots of .22 mag ammo that were excess rounds from a proof house. For some reason they just dumped them in boxes of 1000 and sold them like that in bulk. They were all tested and approved lots, so nothing was wrong with them. $85/box and free shipping. Needless to say I’m set for about 27 lifetimes on .22 mag. It was a pain though to sort them as to manufacturer and bullet type, but well worth it………….
Hi Taminator, I’d be interested in one of those bricks for $85, let me know, thanks
One of the problems at the moment is the amount of ammo imports from Europe. At one time before the Kenyan and Red Hilda started their crap we imported 30 billion rounds of ammo per month from Europe. That was the equivalent to our domestic production. There were three major customers. The military which was served first. Then the Law enforcement community and lastly there was the civilian market. The bulk of the import stuff went to the civilian market. As fear mounted about what the Mombasa Moron was going to do more people bought firearms and ammo.
Two things then happened. Red Hilda reduced the amount of ammo imports from 30 billion a month to 3 billion. O’dummy then started buying up as much ammo using government agencies who were not even armed agencies to purchase as much of the remaining supplies. The Dept of Education bought 10 million rounds. The Dept of Housing and Urban Development bought millions more. They also were buying up firearms such as tactical shotguns and thousands of handguns. This was done to further put pressure on the supply of both guns and ammo.
To my knowledge I don’t know if Red Hildas import quotas are still in effect or not. I subscribe to quite a few firearm related magazines and I have seen the issue discussed one way or another.
The last I heard on the subject was that before Obunmer left office he ordered all federal departments and agencies holding all quantities of ammo over their yearly allotment to send them to one of several ordnance disposal depots for destruction. To the tune of a half trillion rounds.
I wonder if the quotas were ever adjusted upwards after Red Hilda and John F’in Kerry left the scene.
I think your billions should be millions. We have never imported 360 billion rounds of ammunition a year into the U.S. The yearly production of .22lr is only 2.5 billion in the U.S. If you have a link to prove otherwise please post.
Figures come from NRA. We imported the same amount as what our monthly production capacity was.
I guess you answered part of the question, so you get a 50! Here’s what I found:
The only NRA article I could find says Americans use about 7 billion rounds a year.
https://www.nraila.org/articles/20080925/ammunition-summary
From a 2013 article in Breitbart ” the National Shooting Sports Foundation and NRA estimate a minimum of 10 billion rounds of ammunition is produced domestically annually.”
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2013/04/04/the-great-dhs-ammunition-stockpile-myth/
A far cry from 30 billion round imported monthly as you state. I doubt we import or have ever imported 30 times our domestic production of ammunition.
“When will things get back to ‘normal’? Years, dude.”
Probably right, but hopefully wrong. We live in weird times – things change with amazing speed & agility.
The last ‘panic’ I recall was 2016 election – all were certain ‘the beast’ would win and people went nuts. When Trump won, prices tanked, companies went happy-up, and everybody retired to their big screen Netflix binges. I certainly didn’t see that coming.
Now we’re in a serious panic again. Looks pretty bad, but I’m confident Trump will take it. Here in “very blue Maine”, I see lots of Trump/Pence signs. Not one “Biden” sign. NOT ONE.
Here’s hoping in 18 months we’re all buying white box 9mm for $0.20/round again.
December 2016 was full of excellent deals. I bought enough $32 lower receivers and $6 GI-spec magazines to choke every horse in my county. My grandkids will be well armed — and a few of their kids as well.
Let’s hope the same thing happens this year.
You are assuming, of course, that the election is honest. I pray that you are right.
I’ve been working with airsoft and BB guns in my suburban back yard. I’m having fun, and working scenarios and stances that are difficult to work at the range, like kneeling, and a LOT of unsupported strong and weak hand. I’m doing some shooting from behind obstructions and some snap shooting too.
Sure the recoil isn’t right, nor are the mechanics of re-cocking the airsoft, but I can put in lots of trigger pulls, lots of sight alignments, lots of ‘flinch’ avoidance work with almost no cost.
I am literally plinking tin cans and it’s a hoot. It’s great fun to take 10 minutes out of the day and shoot some cans.
I may get an appropriate model to match my EDC and work on some draw stroke soon too. That’s one thing my local range really never liked.
And, IT’S FUN 🙂
n
“Many folks feel that reloading is the answer to these ammo shortages, but thats like saying cooking your own hamburgers is the solution to no burgers at Wendy’s because of a beef shortage. If larger manufacturers can’t get the components to keep up with demand, neither will you. Usually.“
I’ve been saying something similar but less eloquent for years.
There is still alot of .40 out there for sale. Granted you won’t winchester ranger hp for 40 cents a round like you could just a few months ago. Very glad I stocked up when it was cheap!
The wise ant buys and stocks wide and deep when the harvest comes in and items are plentiful and reasonable. The wise ant doesn’t wait until the first had frost to prepare for winter.
A lesson for all grasshoppers to learn the hard way…………………….
Being a reloader since the late 70’s one thing I can say is even if the primers, powder and bullets are in short supply, at any range I’ve ever been shooting at can give you a very nice supply of brass for a modicum of effort. Then as a reloaded you can at least prep, size, decap and flare the cases and have a ready supply of prepped brass when the other components become available again.
Also I hope most of you people are right but I see very little chance that Trump gets re-elected. To much bad stuff is happening now and of course the MSM and the dems are blaming him for all of it. And unfortunately a Biden admin is clearly NOT going to be pro-gun.
Some of my earliest memories are of my dad reloading – I used to ask if I could help and he would say “Yep stay out of the way”. As I got older I got to count the bullets he’d just cast and put them in containers. Surprised I have any finger prints left after getting burned more than a few time by a still hot lead bullet. I remember in about 1983 asking him why we reloaded and kept some much ammo- I have never forgotten his answer – he said “son they won’t outlaw guns, but they will go after the ammo, they will tax it or stop allowing stores to sell it.” As soon as I was on my own I started my cache building – it is sad to see a brick of 22 ammo with a $7.99 price sticker on it. Long gone are the days of $2.99 a box .223 Norinco ammo!!! Buy it if you see it- if nothing else it is a hedge against inflation. Lead and Brass- my favorite precious metals.
I still have boxes of Black Talon and steel core Norinco yellow box in spam cans (~$90 per 1100 rd case back in the day). I don’t shoot much anymore but when I do Blazer is just fine and it keeps my stock numbers static.
Hopefully being in the a/c, sealed ammo cans and temp controlled the ammo should keep long after I’m gone. Still remember shooting some Lake City with an 1944 head stamp in my old Garand with no problems.
Having an FFL back in the 80’s was a hoot and a much different world than now. Couldn’t sell a Russian SKS for $100 and now see them asking $1300 on armslist. 1980’s Shotgun News had a deal for $1100, 20 SKS rifles and 20,000 rounds of ammo. Didn’t jump because I couldn’t move the rifles back then. ):
the problem with b) is that this may be it for a while, a very long while, as things go sideways for a long time, maybe our lifetime. so even tho i did c), i’m still doing a) just in case.
Dollar cost average into your ammo. Set a dollar amount you will spend per month, and religiously spend no less than that per month, on whatever it will buy.
I was busy buying guns off the books before our private sale ban went into effect. 2020 was planned to be an ammo buying year. Well so much for that plan…
Not buying anything right now (unemployed) and not going to the range which is killing me. But my ammo supply is good for me. Sufficient stores for all weapons, hope I NEVER have to use it, but I have a feeling we’re all going to get tested.
My father has been gone fifteen years and I still have 9mm he reloaded before he passed. His reloads were solid. My brother just shot a batch he had.
The only thing I am short on is .60 caliber ball for my Indian Trade Gun (flintlock). I have plenty of .44 ball for my .45 flintlocks.
Wow! 40 posts Ol’ CZ must have hit a nerve with this topic. Totally agree with Jimbo, had an FFL back in the 1980s and early 1990s. Have several 50 cal cans full of that Norinco 223 also, and I did buy the SKS with the ammo deal, retail was $139 if I remember right. Old George H Bush did a number on us, & than Clinton & Janet Napalitono walloped us, and I was out. Yep ammo scarce here too. Time to crank up the Dillon.
Agree, reloading if you don’t have ALL the components is about the same a buying ammo if there’s none available. I recently wandered the ammo aisle of the local merchandise store, more out of curiosity than anything. Plenty of .380, 40S&W, 45ACP, and 5.56, but no 9mm or 38/357, and prices haven’t gone up too much. I don’t need it, but am as susceptible to uncertainty as anyone. I’m solid on C, but if this weirdness goes on for years, more is better, no? Maybe time to dabble in A a little, and contribute to the shortage.