FriendOfTheBlog(tm), Joel, had himself a bump-in-the-night encounter a few weeks back that I mentioned here. I mentioned it because it underscores the utility of weapon-mounted lights and how, in some circumstances, they are just what the doctor ordered.
What I didn’t mention was that I gifted Joel one of these so that he could light something up without pointing a carbine at it, if he needed to. We all know the rules about not pointing a gun at anything you don’t want to destroy, so I figure that a high-capacity-intensity flashlight would be handy for when you’re not sure that whatever is out in the dark is something you want to be pointing a loaded gun at.
Anyway…
There was a comment in the post Joel made about how, given his hermit location, finding CR123 batteries for this light, in case its rechargeable batteries zonked out, would be a difficulty and he would be better serviced with the dirt-common alkaline AA-batts. I politely disagreed because, in my experience, every Home Depot, hardware store, gun store, and supermarket carries CR123 batts. But..I’ve been wrong before, so I’m open to the possibility that perhaps my experience in the matter differs from what that experience would be if I lived in Joel’s neighborhood.
But the crux of the matter, really, is this: is a device that runs on CR123 batts a liability over a similar device that runs on AA-batts? In terms of price? In terms of availability?
One of the points brought up in the comment was that AA batts were cheaper than CR123. This is quite true. But, as I pointed out, it’s not an apples-to-apples comparison. AA alkaline batteries are cheaper than CR123 lithium batteries. But when you compare AA lithium batteries to CR123 lithium batteries, there is a niggling difference in price. A quick perusal of Amazon showed Energizer lithium AA’s and lithium CR123’s being pretty close to each other in bulk price.
The scarcity issue may have some merit, but CR123 batteries are easily ordered in bulk from Amazon during a time of non-apocalypse, and because of their lithium construction they can be stored longer than alkaline batteries with less self-discharge. (And, I am told, lithium batteries tend to puke all over themselves much less than the alkaline batteries do.)
The advantage to the AA-batt is that if you run out of lithium AA’s for your device you can, usually, still use the dirt-common AA alkalines….assuming its not eight years after the apocalypse when they’ve all self-discharged or leaked into a pile of crud.
All of this underscores that for your battery needs you need to think about things like this. I standardized a long time ago on three battery sizes – AA, D, CR123. Almost every device I could possibly need….headlamps, flashlight, gun sight, weaponlight, radio, freezer alarm, etc…can be had running off one of those types of batteries. Some devices, like a high-intensity weapon light, have power requirements that can’t be met with anything except a CR123. While there are weaponlights out there that will run on other battery sizes, it seems like they usually don’t have the same level of brightness intensity unless they make up for their non-CR123 power requirement by using a much larger quantity of batteries. (In other words, instead of using two CR123, it may need six or eight AA’s.)
Then there’s the matter of rechargeable devices. More and more stuff is of the USB-charger variety. The flashlight I sent Joel, for example, has its rechargeable battery charged through USB. I rather like this feature because it means in a pinch I can charge it from anything that would charge a cellphone….a small solar panel, a battery pack, etc, etc. But, as we all know, rechargeable batteries have a limited amount of duty cycled before the battery starts to no longer hold as much of a charge. This is mitigated a bit by the fact that the package I sent Joel has a spare battery and should, I would think, last probably the rest of his life. But even if the batteries died an ignoble death, the light can still run off CR123’s…which brings us back around to a few paragraphs earlier.
The person who commented on there being a disadvantage, in Joels case, to the CR123 batteries has a valid point – resupply is definitely a concern. But, in my opinion, that potential risk or failure point is mitigated by the the CR123 being able to be long-terms stored meaning that a supply of them purchased now should take care of things. Also, for what I was looking for – a compact, handheld light with tremendous brightness – wasn’t as readily available in a non-CR123 version while still meeting the compact requirements.
Anyway, some food for though there.
Agree. I buy batteries (AA, AAA, CR-123, etc, alkaline/lithium) in bulk (Amazon usually) and store them in my freezer. I figure I’m pretty well covered with that
I buy them in bulk too, I reorder when I get under 10. I shop the net for the best deals. Sometimes it’s Amazon, sometimes not. But I stay with name brand batteries. Cheap CR123s worry me for a reason I can’t quite recall now.
The other size that is a lot of devices is CR2032, which is also available in bulk on Amazon.
Seem CR123 are pretty much a common battery these days, unlike 20 years ago. I can find them in every store that sells batteries.
I think having a weapon mounted light is dangerous to the owner. Nothing makes a better target than some half-asleep person waving around a firearm. If needed, I prefer to carry a light in my off hand away from my center of mass.
I think its something that a person really can’t make a blanket statement about….its all situational. However, if you have a weaponlight, theres nothing that says you have to use it. But if you don’t have a weaponlight, but wind up in a situation that calls for one…thats a problem.
First off, a half-asleep person is a dangerous thing to begin with. If you are not coherent and in control of your mental facilities, you should never have a deadly weapon in your hands. This is how people get killed that should not have been killed. I also agree with your response 100 percent, Zero.
My reply was to the “bump-in-the-night encounter” that CZ wrote about above. When one is usually awakened to a sound, their mental abilities are somewhat lacking. So you are saying that if you encounter a home invasion that wakes you from sleep, you should not respond with firearm in hand?
As a LE firearms instructor, who teaches tactical movement, WML and RDS that is exactly what I am saying. If someone is not capable of making those life and death decisions with full mental awareness, they don’t get do overs if they get it wrong. I personally never keep a weapon in a location that I can acquire while still in bed. My located is far enough away to give my brain time to wake up, which can take the average person around 10 seconds when awaken from a dead sleep. Very few people are trained to go hunt the bad guys, especially one on one and even then, it should only be as a last resort in situations where the bad guy is between you and a loved one. Otherwise, the conventional wisdom is that you should post up on a hard point with your weapon and call 911.
which is why I send the dogs first, they are better at seeing, hearing, smelling, biting, barking, etc.
I always have a light with me, but never in front of my face or center of mass as with a weapon mounted light. Why reveal your location as a target?
The purpose of a mounted light is to ensure that you are effective in hitting the perps that you have ALREADY determined are a major problem. It’s not for search purposes. You are expecting to light up their world with an appropriate caliber after you dazzle them with photons.
Your aversion to lights reminds me of the cop attitudes from 3 or 4 decades ago. You are out of date, or out of training.
“Your aversion to lights” Sounds like you haven’t read my comments above. I always carry a light, just not in front of my face.
Corrected version: You should always have a secondary light source not attached to a weapon. We still teach using off hand, Modified FBI, neck/head indexing, and other non WML tactics, as back up to WML failure. However, using a WML allows for a proper two-handed grip on the firearm which is not possible when a light is in the support hand. When in a high stress environment, a person’s accuracy will drop dramatically, even more when that person lacks a proper grip. With that said, most people are also not comfortable with learning new things, I see this all the time even with some officers when teaching the Red Dot System for pistols, but then they praise them being on their rifles. Go figure!!!!
pelican, who make the hard cases, also make some pretty solid flashlights…a few of their “tactical lights” use a rechargeable, AA, and the cr123’s…they have a sleeve to use the different batteries…the 7600 has, besides white light, red and green…it will use cr123’s or a rechargeable… https://www.pelican.com/us/en/product/flashlights/tactical-flashlight/7600 …i don’t have my other pelican with me, at work in my go bag but i believe it’s the 7610 or 20…i know that one will take AA batteries, cr123, or a rechargeable… https://www.pelican.com/us/en/product/flashlights/tactical-flashlight/7620 …if you want some good batteries with a 10 year shelf life, been using these for several years (10-12 years now i think)…use them in my x200, x300, all my other surefire lights and the pelicans… https://www.batteryjunction.com/brands/shop-by-brand/titanium-innovations?battery_size=293 …50 for $52.50 ain’t bad, especially with the cost of everything right now…they are almost the exact same price now compared to when i first started buying them…and you get a free key chain light with every order…
the way the world is heading headlong into a Mad Max scenario any minute now, batteries will be the least of our worries.
Weapon light versus handheld both benefit from training and practice. As far as batteries go, I am a big fan of several flashlights that use the CR123. I stock several different batteries, and I also have a box of battery converters to get me out of a bind if necessary. Look for them, they are cheap and allow you the flexability to use different size batteries in different devices. For example, the converters will let me use AA batteries in something that requires C batteries.
Following. I use surefire lights and their brand of batteries exclusively in either the hand lights or weapon mounted lights. The performance level is consistent and assured with them versus some others. Value in other brands on the internet may not prove to preform to your needed levels. I just ordered three surefire12 packs to add to and rotate out inventories in stowed lights, etc. They still work as intended a few years past that ten years date they stamp on it during manufacturing. (You do order bulk and bigly multiple amounts, not just ones and twos anon?) Tactical purposed hand torches or weapon lights should be juiced by 123s for the power levels needed. Everyday knock about work lights / headlamps etc are more suitable for aa types, because you can bulk buy more batteries for high volume expenditures during lighting needs for routine tasks. I go to harbor freight and buy a couple bricks of AAs regular like and am good to go for a long time. I avoid recharge type of kit due to that cycle life limitation factor. Light the night to stay frosty.
If you want to not worry so much about battery replacement, then use rechargeable ni-cad or li-ion batteries. To the best of my knowledge, the button batteries like the CR123/2032 are not available in a rechargeable version. I would limit my lights as much as possible to ones that take batteries that I can recharge and use over and over. Just sayin’.
Tractorguy
As mentioned in the post, there’s always the issue of degradation of the rechargeable battery from repeated charge/discharge cycles. You can’t just buy a rechargeable battery and think that it will last forever because when it is drained you can just simply recharge it for perpetuity. You can recharge them for quite a while, but over time they’ll hold less and less of a charge. Maybe youll be dead before that happens, maybe not. But they aren’t a panacea.
Actually, there is a RCR123 from Tenergy and other brands which is a rechargeable version of the CR123. However, they have less than half the stored power as the non-rechargeable version so they won’t last as long when the light is in use.
Most tactical flashlights that use two CR123s will also take the 18650. Using one 18650 rechargeable battery is a much better choice than using two CR123s from a milliamp hour perspective. I often have an 18650 in the light and two CR-123s as a backup since they will not lose power if left alone for a couple years while the 18650 will.
I concur with the comment above about avoiding cheap batteries, and I would also avoid those that make ridiculous claims about their power.
Nice website.
This!
The 18650 is great if your light body will accept them. While slightly harder to find, the 16650s are a perfect fit forlights that have 2 CR123s end-to-end.
I tend to get mine at MalkoffDevices or BatteryJunction. I’m a big fan of NiteCore’s smart chargers as well.
On the smaller side but one of my favorites. Runs on the CR123 OR AA. Think I mentioned under an old EDC conversation.
https://www.thefirestore.com/streamlight-protac-1l1aa
More food for thought:
I have CR123s.
They run some cool toys.
Yes, you can find them nearly everywhere. Now.
Until you can’t.
Meantime, give a holler when they make rechargeable CR123s.
Because I have oodles of rechargeable AAs, for which reason they, and any devices that use them, will always be superior choices to batteries – and devices that rely on them – that could become powered by unobtanium at a whim.
Aesop,
“Yes, you can find them nearly everywhere. Now.
Until you can’t.”
Well, is that not the problem with anything? So, why stock up on anything to begin with, since it will eventually run out?
And there are rechargeable CR123s, but they are not as good as the non-rechargeables. Rechargeables fail to recharge at some point and run time will degrade with each recharge.
No perfect solutions out there just worse, good and better to choose from.
CR123s go for between $1 and $5 apiece, depending on source.
Good rechargeables are around $7 apiece, divided by 300-500 cycles.
AAs peak at about 60¢, and about $3 for the non-rechargeable lithium ones.
And are about 100x more findable, coast to coast.
Rechargeable AAs are going for about $3 apiece, amortized over 500-1000 recharging cycles.
So even the best rechargeable CR123 is twice the cost, with half the lifespan. And even though rechargeables inevitably die, I’ll be using my AAs twice as long as the guy with CR123s.
I like my Surefire 6P, and have a couple of CR123-powered EOTechs kicking around, and if I hit the lottery, I’d buy a pallet of everything, but I have to make choices I can afford on what I actually earn, not what I wish I earned.
That’s why until technology improves and/or prices drop, anything I buy going forward will run on rechargeable batteries, and they’ll overwhelmingly be AAs.
Now, if only someone would take a 2″x4″, and have a sharp word with the @$$hole idiots at Leupold who made their laser rangefinders run on CR2s…
If I lived anywhere in Oregon, I’d already have driven over and kicked them in the junk myself for that bonehead move.
My experience is that, having had several lights and other devices get Duracell squeeze poured out into them, and said lights ruined, I will not use Duracell in anything that I do not remove the batteries from daily.
And I do not remove the batteries from anything, daily.
Have not ever (yet) had that problem with Energizers.
Second Battery Junction. Reasonable prices on bulk buys.
Wow! Great write up and lots of good follow up. Funny, lots of people with similar experiences to ours. We used to – used to – have a hard time finding CR123 batteries, now we buy them in bulk shipped to door. We have settled on CR123 weapon lights and AA pocket lights. We regularly find alkaline batteries puking out, which is highly annoying, but when I recently contacted Duracell and complained about a new package already showing corrosion they sent us coupons for replacements plus some. So, if you find your batteries leaking, contact the manufacturer and they may make it worth your trouble.
Um…by sending you more batteries that’ll do the exact same thing…?!?
Unless you figure they keep a stash of high-quality, non-defective non-chinesium batteries on hand, for customers who complain…?
That’s kind of like taking your car back to the guys who screwed up fixing it in the first place, to fix it the second time too, IMHO.
Best wishes with that approach.
I’m going with the “Fool Me Once” Theory of commercial interactions.