KEArms and Angstadt 9mm carbines

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Lovely weekend here in the mountain west. Hotter than a two dollar pistol, but, so far, no major fires.

Last year I picked up a pair of 9mm carbines that take Glock magazines. One was an Angstadt and the other was from KEArms (the guys who make the poly lowers). I’d posted about the Angstadt and , I must say, it’s a really nice gun. Strong recommend.

The KEArms gun was also quite nice, but it was giving me fits. I could never get off more than five or six rounds before I’d have a wild failure to eject. Since the 9mm cases are so short, and there’s plenty of room for bolt travel in the gun, a case would fail to eject, the bolt would cycle all the way back, and upon return the bolt would slide forward with the unejected case held firmly to it, and the empty case would actually push the next round out of the mag and into the chamber….creating a hellish doublefeed.

I tried swapping springs, changing ammo, etc, etc. Nothing worked. Since I had a lot of guns here to play with I kinda set the KEA gun back and forgot about it. Last month I finally contacted KEA and explained the problem. They emailed me a paid shipping label and sent it back. Took ’em about two weeks to get to it. There was some problem with the bolt and they replaced it. Got the gun back yesterday and headed to the range. Shoots fine.

One thing about those KEA poly lowers is their claim to fame is that they are lightweight. The 9mm is no powerhouse of recoil, but in a lightweight gun like the one I have it was interesting that the recoil almost seemed the same as what you’d get from a .223. I’ll throw a tri-lug on the end of the barrel and see if a suppressor makes any difference.

Once you’ve played with roller-delayed 9mm guns, you become a little spoiled and a straight blowback 9mm seems ker-chunky and brutal.

Invariably, any time someone brings up the topic of pistol-caliber carbines there will be someone who chimes in with “Ive never seen the point of carrying a full size carbine in a less than full-size caliber” or “You might as well just have it in .223 for the same size and weight”. Arguments that completely ignore everything except caliber. Would I rather run out the door with a 5.56 carbine than a 9mm one? Absolutely. So why would I have a 9mm carbine? Very streamlined logistics for situations where you don’t have the luxury of carrying two different types of magazines and two different types of ammo. If all you can take with you is what you can carry, there’s an advantage to streamlined logistics. Additionally, I can suppress a 9mm carbine a lot easier than a 5.56.

To carry the pointlessness of this argument even further, someone will say either:

a) If portability is a factor then you should just grab a 10/22 and a .22 pistol
or
b) Get a 5.56 ‘pistol’ AR

Firstly, Im not going though the apocalypse with just .22 . As it is, I’m already compromising on terminal ballistics by dropping to 9mm. Secondly, no AR ‘pistol’ is really a pistol. A pistol fits in a holster on your belt or tucks under your shirt for compact and concealable purposes. “Get 5.7 then”, will be the retort. Sure…I’ll get right on that when I can find 5.7 just as easily as I can 9mm.

First choice for Der Tag? Nah. But if I had to run outta here with just a backpack and what could fit in it, I’d probably grab the 9mm Glock, 9mm carbine, 9mm suppressor, a dozen Glock mags, as much 9mm as I have room for, and call it a day.

20 thoughts on “KEArms and Angstadt 9mm carbines”

  2. I have kept a Get-Home-Bag in my vehicles for many years. My EDC weapon has been a Glock for at least the past 20 years. I purchased a Keltec Sub 2000 to complement it. Fortunately I have never had to use it; but, it is a great comfort knowing it is close at hand.

  3. Always good to hear about a company that stands behind their products and provides good warranty service.

    Although my 9mm CMMG Banshee has a shorter barrel and is technically a pistol not a carbine, I like it for for many of the same reasons you state, including the ubiquity of 9mm. Yes 5.56 is common, but not quite as common or as cheap as 9mm. It is also a fun gun to use on the range, which means I am more likely to practice with it.

    I also like it when my concealed carry pistol can take the same 30-round mags I carry in a pack for the larger gun and vice versa. And because both are pistols, I can drive into any contiguous state and the Banshee is covered by my CCW permit whereas my truck gun has to stay locked in the contractor box and unloaded to be legal. That alone is worth not SBR-ing it.

  4. I think PCCa are great for one of two uses:
    1. To equip small people or those unfamiliar with guns. They give more punch than a 22 without the recoil of a rifle caliber.
    2. As mentioned above, when you need a compact setup to store or transport easily, i.e. constrained logistics. If you go for lower end options, you can have an effectively disposable kit for not too much.
    To be honest, a PCC will be good enough in at least 90% of what you’ll face. It could be 100%.

  5. “But if I had to run outta here with just a backpack and what could fit in it”
    I still remember those days when I could run out the door with just a backpack; I still remember those days when I could run …

  6. CZ, have you been chronographing your sessions with these carbines? It would be interesting to see what kind of velocities they develop.
    I’ve been looking at the Daniel Defense 9mm PCC SBR. Very nice looking gun. The proportions look right to me. I really like that they use factory CZ Scorpion magazines. They are very reasonably priced for a Euro mag. Magpul is also making Scorpion mags.
    I don’t even want an MP5 anymore.

    • Ii haven’t chronographed them, butI know there are going to be some changes in velocity compared to being fired out of a 4″ barreled handgun. Ballistics By The Inch would probably answer all the questions.

  7. Your ammunition logistics makes a lot of sense to me too. But I think my preference would be a .357 trapper with .357 revolver and call it good. I’d rather be trying to evade any confrontations, but if they do happen, likely be at very close range and a .357 is a fight stopper. I will concede both of these are much slower to reload than loaded magazines.

    Glad to hear your trouble appears to be squared away.

  9. I am in the group our host beat up in the post above. However none of his reasons assigned to us fits me. I note the Antifa group that attacked the ICE detention center in Texas on July 4 were wearing or had body armour. Every single person. Vest are more common these days. Most will stop a pistol caliber but rarely a rifle caliber. It’s not about logistics its all about the fight. The fight is everything. I suspect Clint Smith would prefer a 308 but settles for a 5.56 in a rifle. I know he does not want a PCC. He has seen the elephant. He has the experience. I am not a groupie of Clint Smith, just a old geezer that has learned over the years to trust those with the experience in a subject. Clint has the scars…..

      • Nah, not harsh just a figure of speech. We can agree to disagree and go have barbeque and a Coke together anytime you are in the neighborhood my treat. Just don’t wait too long the doc just recommended hospice for my elderly ass….

        • Ken- Good to see you still have some ‘fire in yer belly’ even on hospice! My advice, give your guns (or at least some of them) to your kin before you die, the kin you like, & will use them, & don’t live in ‘blue’ states. My brother screwed up, and left his to a relative in a blue state, who has no interest and can’t legally own them.

          • Done that. Some to grandson and some to little brother and his grandson (along with my Council Tool boy’s axe and hatchets and my Buck 110 and 120 bought in 1970 along with my Grandfather’s case folder. I watched him castrate sheep and wipe it on his overalls before cutting up a apple for me about 1959 or so.

    • I would wonder what the likelihood is that your Mark I, Mod zero random marauder, would have the infrastructure/logistics of the July 4 ICE assailants? My wager, simply as a dumb ass civilian with no elephant gazing experience, is that it is low.

      Having said that, should I have the opportunity/need, and advanced notice, I would myself prefer .308 or 30-06, yet might find myself slinging up a .223.

      Hope I never find out that I am wrong. As well as pray that I never find out that I am right.

    • Okay, so, 5.7x28mm.

      There’s a lot of “Stop that!” In a 50-round rifle magazine and a 22-round pistol mag. Recoil is slight and you can get an upper for your AR that accepts those 50-round mags. (Not a typo, the mag is on top of the upper like in the p-90s, and the spent cases eject through the lower’s magazine well.)

      Not commonality of magazines, though. So there’s that.

  10. Just wondering why you didn’t consider a Ruger PC Carbine? Those are solid and mine runs like a top! Heavy forged barrel on it as well. It comes with the glock mag adaptor as well. I added the Magpul stock and can split it in half and put it inside my backpack if I ever need to bug out.

    • I have two of them. Fine gun, very accurate. But the ergonomics are inferior to the ergos of an AR. Additionally, the manual of arms is the same as a .223 AR when using a 9mm AR. Plus the slings, optics, furniture, etc, are all identical. I like the Ruger PC Carbine a lot, but between the two, unless the takedown feature was paramount, I’d take the AR-style for familiarity’s sake.

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